User talk:Ofearna/Archive12

Dates of interiorart records
Where are you getting the dates for the content records for the interiorart published in this collection? The ones that you've been varianting to their uses for cover art are dated before the publication of the covers, which would appear to be illogical unless the work was published somewhere before it was used as a cover. For example: this record is dated 1982 for its use as a cover for Isaac Asimov: The Foundations of Science Fiction, but the interiorart record you varianted to it is dated 1968 and was published in the 2003 retrospective for the Chesley Awards. One of the dates must be incorrect. Mhhutchins 04:07, 29 January 2013 (UTC)


 * from the Chesley Awards book... the ones that are in the "Artistic Achievement" sections are the only ones from previous years, so I've been going by the dates, so the one you've questioned says "Tower City" 1968 Cover for the book Isaac Asimov by James Gunn (OUP), so it should been the date used for the Isaac Asimov book? O&#39;Fearna 04:12, 29 January 2013 (UTC)


 * That may have been the year it was painted (1968). As I said in an earlier post, we don't use the "creation date". Records should be dated the first "publication date". The James Gunn book was first published in 1982, so if, as the book says, it was first used on that book, then its record should be dated 1982. You can add a note about the 1968 date given here. Do some further reading in the book to see how they arrived at the dates they give for the artwork. Mhhutchins 04:27, 29 January 2013 (UTC)


 * It doesn't seem to be consistent. The David Cherry piece for Chanur's Homecoming is dated 1987, while the book it first appeared on was published in 1986. It may just be a case of bad proofing by the editors of the collection. Mhhutchins 04:29, 29 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I think bad proofing; I've found about 8 Frazetta/Freas images that say Astounding (or whatever magazine), Month, year with wrong magazine, wrong date or wrong year. Thankfully I haven't found any with more than one error for one record O&#39;Fearna 22:18, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Another dating problem
Why would you want to change the date of a record for a piece published in the Chesley Awards collection in October 2003 to June 2004? I have to state again: works are dated the first date of publication. If you don't know when it was first published then leave it the date of the first publication in which it appears in the database. Mhhutchins 17:14, 29 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I was trying to match the original publication of the book cover... I'll change it to match the award book. O&#39;Fearna 17:28, 29 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not asking you to "match the award book". I'm asking you to date the art records according to the date it was first published, regardless of whether it was in the awards book, or on a cover. Also, you don't have to update each individual content record. Most of them can be changed in one submission in an update of the awards book publication record. Mhhutchins 18:04, 29 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll just use the date of the current publication I'm using at present in the future and any merges can fix dates. That should work! O&#39;Fearna 22:16, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Years in the making - Eggleton cover
Hello, I've put your sub on hold as it seems that you want to make this 2005 cover a variant of this later -2006- cover. Shouldn't it be the other way round ? Hauck 08:26, 4 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Probably, I'll cancel and redo. O&#39;Fearna 08:51, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Hauck 09:10, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

The Hobbit
This record was accepted but there are a couple of problems. What is the source for the date of this 13th printing of the title? Also, the page count field was incorrectly entered. It should be changed from "(6) +138 + (4)" to "[6]+138+[4]" (brackets without spaces). But more importantly, is there any text of significant matter on these pages which would warrant giving the page numbers in the page count field? Please make the correction and add the source for the publication date in the record's Note field. Mhhutchins 03:19, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * huh, I thought I had put "book in hand" on there... there are 6 pages, then the gn starts with page #1 and ends with page #138 with 4 more unpaginated pages at the end. All the information I put on that submission, including the date, came directly from the copyright page.  I'll go change the page numbers. Susan O&#39;Fearna 03:22, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * If a reprinted book gives the publication date on the copyright page, it's a good idea to state that in the Note field. What is "gn"? If there is no text of significant value on the 6 pages before the novel and 4 pages after, you should not include them in the page count. Mhhutchins 03:44, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Further research has shown that this is a graphic novel adaptation of Tolkien's work. It is not eligible for the database. I will be deleting it unless you have a strong case for keeping it. Mhhutchins 03:50, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I was just adding the reprint of a book that was already in the database. If you feel it should be deleted, perfect that solves all these questions (*grin*) BUT.. gn = graphic novel.  The leading 6 pages are title/copyright -- I wasn't even certain any but the 138 numbered pages even needed inclusion.  So, if you don't decide we need to delete the publication, how do I document the date? Susan O&#39;Fearna 04:03, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm going to delete the title and both publication records. But if I didn't, you should record the date as you do every publication record in the ISFDB: enter the date that's stated in the publication. If there is no stated publication date, and you've found a reliable secondary source, you can enter that date and then note the source in the record. If you can not find a reliable secondary source you enter 0000-00-00 in the publication date field. This is what you should have been doing since the day you started editing the ISFDB. I'm not sure why at this point you're having to ask that question. Mhhutchins 04:11, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Cool, that does make things easier ^_^ Susan O&#39;Fearna 17:22, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Variating artwork - dates
Hello, same problem of date with your submission to make this 1992 and likely first artwork variant of that later pub. I've cancelled the lot. Hauck 07:32, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks... just must have gotten them mixed up. Re-submitted with Asimov's the parent record. Susan O&#39;Fearna 17:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Worldwar : In the Balance
Hello, I've put your sub on hold as it seems to me that there are two different sets of cover art involved, even if the italian cover looks like a mix of the other three (inverted lizard minus weapon from the UK + tiger tank and flag from the US), same for the Cover of Invasione: Fase seconda. Hauck 07:38, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The two covers to "In the Balance" were created by simply flipping this image.  is just that image, manipulated, though I may need to cancel  since I have NO IDEA where the Hitler/Roosevelt patch came from.  So, let me know if I need to cancel either or both?   Thanks!!! Susan O&#39;Fearna 17:21, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The patch is from here, I've rejected both submmissions (IMHO for the first one such manipulation lead to a "new" artwork). Hauck 18:16, 5 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Cool! I'll add Stan Watts as co-cover artist to that one and leave them be. Thanks! Susan O&#39;Fearna 18:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Adding pubs to titles / Ballads
If a publication's title doesn't match a title record, you should not use Add Publication to this Title. That's akin to making a title record for the publication and then merging it with the existing title record, keeping the existing title record. If they wouldn't be appropriate merge candidates (e.g., due to different title wording or version of the author's name), Add Publication is likewise inappropriate. When they differ, you should use Add New xxx instead and then make a variant relationship between that title and the existing one after the submission is accepted. Don't despair: I accepted your submission and separated it from The Book of Ballads and made a variant. But keep it in mind, as it's a bit of work for a moderator to correct, and someone might reject such a submission on you instead. Thanks. --MartyD 12:25, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks... and I see you made Ballads the parent record. Thanks. Susan O&#39;Fearna 16:23, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes. You can switch it around if you think that makes more sense (and/or consult with Willem H., moderator and verifier of one of The Book of Ballads instances and see what he thinks). The parent doesn't have to be the first/original, it's supposed to be "canonical" -- the title by which the work is most commonly recognized/referred to.  When it's not published many times, the choice is somewhat arbitrary.  --MartyD 14:06, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Orbit ed. of Glory Season
You need to move your primary verification of this record to the first position. Also are you certain that Gambino did the art for this edition or this later Orbit printing? Mhhutchins 00:03, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

According to this post Gambino did the cover for both editions. I'll credit the later printing to him, and add a warning that they shouldn't be merged. Mhhutchins 00:05, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Doh! I now see it was you who posted those on Goodreads. Mhhutchins 00:08, 7 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I emailed David Brin and asked him who did the UK cover (I saw it while in Australia and really preferred it to the US cover). He explained that it was Gambino. I emailed Gambino and he sent me a scan of the art! Susan O&#39;Fearna 02:15, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

The Best of Kage Baker
I expanded the notes to. However, I have also made two corrections. Since you verified the ebook as well, would you please check if these changes should be made there also? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 21:28, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
 * p219: Leaving His Cares Behind was entered as Leaving All His Cares Behind. If the ebook also does not have the "All", please merge the second entry with the first since the ebook is the only title with that entry.
 * p371: I Begyn as I Meane to Go On was entered as I Begyn as I Mean To Go On. If the ebook also has the "e" in "Meane", then the latter record will have to be removed from the ebook and the former record added.


 * Reviewed them closely and merged as appropriate. Thanks for the sharp eyes! Susan O&#39;Fearna 21:56, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I had to reject the submissions to merge these records. You can't merge a variant title record with its parent. You will have to do as suggested and remove the wrongly titled records from the publication records, add a new content record with the correct title, and then merge the exactly matching title records. Mhhutchins 22:03, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Changes made. Thanks for checking. -- JLaTondre (talk) 01:21, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

UK ed. of First Rider's Call
I'm holding a submission to change the cover art of this record from this image to this one and removing the Chris Moore credit. The source of this record's cover art credit is Locus1. Also, the Amazon UK Look Inside shows the first cover art credited to Chris Moore. What is the source for your data? The image you want to change it to is used on the 2011 Gollancz edition. I seriously doubt that Gollancz would use the same cover art used on an earlier edition from a different publisher. Mhhutchins 22:20, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Something's wrong there... The cover shown is by Keith Parkinson and the image she has at her website for the UK cover (the horse) is not by Chris Moore. Waiting for him to respond to my email about if he did a cover and if he did what it looks like.  The image shown though, is definitely by Parkinson and the UK-credited art is not by Chris Moore.  Wasn't sure what you wanted me to do.  Some of the covers shown at amazon.co.uk are the same Parkinson image... Susan O&#39;Fearna 23:28, 8 February 2013 (UTC)


 * So the credit stated on the back of the actual book must be wrong. (Click on the Look Inside and look at the back cover.) But I'm certain the cover art you want to add to the 2005 Pocket edition is not the same cover art used on the 2011 Gollancz edition. I will reject the submission that does that, and let you research whether the credits are correct. Mhhutchins 00:00, 9 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Damn, that's right! The lookinside shows this image (by KP) and credits Chris Moore.   I'll let you know when Chris lets *me* know Susan O&#39;Fearna 00:04, 9 February 2013 (UTC)


 * In the meantime, I've removed the credit as it's certainly the same art used for both the US DAW and UK Earthlight editions both of which were credited to Parkinson. I've made a note in the record of the publisher (Pocket Books UK) error. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Mhhutchins 00:14, 9 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Just head from Chris Moore and he says he's never done a cover for anything by Britain. Susan O&#39;Fearna 22:42, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Shades of Grey
You should only use the disambiguating "(frontispiece)" if the artwork is not titled and you've given it the same title as the book. In this case you've given the frontispiece a name (which I assume is the name given on the work of art), so there's no need to disambiguate it. (You've also misspelled "frontispiece".) Mhhutchins 22:33, 11 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Susan O&#39;Fearna 22:36, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

The Eyre Affair
Is there a stated price in this book? Mhhutchins 23:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Nope. Susan O&#39;Fearna 23:37, 12 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Odd. You should note that in the record. It's possible that this printing was for a book club. Is there any identification number on the back of the dustjacket? Thanks. Mhhutchins 23:39, 12 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Nope. I'll pull the book and double-check, tho. Susan O&#39;Fearna 23:40, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

For Love of Mother Not
What does the parenthetical number in the page count of this record mean? There is no ISFDB standard for such a usage. Mhhutchins 23:20, 14 February 2013 (UTC)


 * at the end of the book is the excerpt, but the page numbers stop with the end of the novel Susan O&#39;Fearna 23:54, 15 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Any unnumbered pages should be entered inside square brackets: [x]. Thanks. Mhhutchins 00:10, 16 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Pending change ^-^ Susan O&#39;Fearna 17:24, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Straying From the Path
Would you please check the ISBN on ? It is listed as 978-0-98279705-5-1 which is 14 characters. I believe it has an extra 5 per Amazon. If you would either correct the ISBN or, if it is on the publication as shown, add a note that the error is in the publication and not the data entry, it would be appreciated. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:59, 18 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I changed the ISBN to match my Nook edition. Susan O&#39;Fearna 19:19, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Bob Eggleton card set
Submission to add this record was accepted, but requires a couple of questions to be asked. Is the publisher given exactly as "Friedlander Publishing Group (FPG)" and it the piece title "For All Whatkind" really SHORTFICTION? Thanks. Mhhutchins 04:21, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The sell sheet says Friedlander Publishing Group and FPG is the acronym printed on each card. It's kind of a long name ^-^  And I'll fix the "For All Whatkind" type.  Thanks! Susan O&#39;Fearna 16:09, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Thirteen
In this record, is "Bitten: The Prologue" an excerpt from another work, or the prologue of this work? Also is the "Acknowledgements" content a true essay or just a list of thank-yous? Mhhutchins 01:06, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * 1) an excerpt
 * 2) the list of thank-you's for the entire series (none of the other books had these) with a bit of essay about the decade-long series and its' spin-off trilogies It also introduces the story. Susan O&#39;Fearna 01:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Maps...
...should be entered "Title of Work (map)". I've corrected the one you added to this record. And we normally don't create content records for lists of characters. Is the "Dramatis Personae" in this record a true ESSAY and not just a list? Mhhutchins 01:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * It's a list with descriptions of actions (not physical descriptions). Also, the same map is used in all 3 books, so... Susan O&#39;Fearna 16:24, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Kings of the North
The OCLC record you link to in this record gives the ISBN of the trade edition and a different page count. Please check again to see if the BC edition should be linked to this record. Mhhutchins 01:58, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * on all 4 of these, the page counts are wrong at the SFBC and I think that's what Worldcat is using as their source. I checked these against the newsstand HC the library here in town has and they match, so the Worldcat record is wrong b/c of their source.

Same situation with this record. Mhhutchins 01:59, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * see notes above

And with this one as well. Also, please see if the ID number given is the same as shown on the back of the dustjacket. And is the publisher given as "Tor Teen" on the title page? If so, it should be given as "Tor Teen / SFBC" in this record. Mhhutchins 02:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * it does say Tor Teen, and the ID number I left was the one on the back of the book.

And again with this record. The page count is different from the OCLC record. About this last set of submissions for SFBC editions where you're adding links to the OCLC record and the LCCN: is the LCCN and ISBN actually stated in these books? If not, you need to point that out in the notes. Mhhutchins 02:31, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * None of these have LCCN numbers *in* the books, should I take those out? The ISBN numbers are on the back covers and copyright pages of all the books I edited yesterday.


 * I get the feeling the SFBC is not going by page numbers, but from title page thru bio pages as page count.Susan O&#39;Fearna 16:30, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The ISFDB standard is to record the last page number of the book's text as the page count and then add any pages before or after if they have significant text. Also add separately, any Roman-numeral pages.
 * You should not record an LCCN in a book unless it's stated or if it matches exactly the record of the LCCN, in which case you should note that the LCCN is not stated in the book itself.
 * You should not link the OCLC record to a book club edition unless the OCLC record matches exactly with the BCE. In fact, you should not link OCLC records to an ISFDB record unless they are exactly matching editions.
 * If your copy of the book club edition includes the ISBN on the dustjacket and copyright page, you should use the book club's ID number in the "ISBN/Catalog #" field and then record the ISBN in the "Note" field. Mhhutchins 17:28, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I've got a class in 1/2 hour... when I get back I'll go over the books I did yesterday and remember these guidelines in the future. Thanks! Susan O&#39;Fearna 17:30, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I've changed "newsstand" to "trade" since these books are sold by a wide variety of means: book stores, online dealers, etc. Mhhutchins 21:25, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

The Last Dragonslayer
Looks like you want to update the trade edition of this title, not the record for the SFBC edition. The price of $16.99 is for the trade, not the book club which is $10.99. Mhhutchins 02:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * the price was on the book -- both on the inner front flap and the bar-code-box on the back of the book, which I received in the mail yesterday from the SFBC. Susan O&#39;Fearna 16:31, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Then they sent you a copy of the trade edition. (I've had the same experience with the SFBC.) You should update and verify this record. I'll make a note in the record for the SFBC edition, that it's their discounting of the trade edition for club members. Mhhutchins 17:18, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * BUT it also has the SFBC code on the back...


 * Then you should not have changed the price to $16.99 which was the price of the trade edition. Did you pay $16.99 or $10.99? If the latter, keep the book club price in the records Price field, and make a note of the price printed on the dustjacket. Mhhutchins 17:31, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * it was an introductory offer as I was signing up for a new membership (great deals!). Susan O&#39;Fearna 17:33, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

I've accepted the submission and made changes to conform to the info you've given here. Please change anything that doesn't apply to your copy of the book. Mhhutchins 18:01, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Removing variants
I rejected two submissions to variant before I realized you were attempting to remove the variant relationship. (There's no way for a moderator to know this, and there is no field to let us know either.) Tell me what you were trying to do and I'll go back and fix them.

The first one was for this record and the second one was for this one. Do neither of the images for these match the parent record that they were varianted to?

I'm also holding three submissions to remove these variants:
 * Primitive Aliens from Flying to Valhalla
 * Cover: Aliens and Alien Societies from Flying to Valhalla
 * Cover: Nell'abisso di Olduvai from Flying to Valhalla

Do none of these three images match the parent record? Mhhutchins 22:28, 25 February 2013 (UTC)


 * They're all related. I accidentally varianted to the wrong art.  "There Goes the Neighborhood" is the frontspiece from Flying to Valhalla, while Primitive Aliens is the interior illustration to George Zebrowki's story and I got them reversed so need to re-do all the related variants for them. Susan O&#39;Fearna 22:38, 25 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I've accepted the submissions. Please proceed to variant them to the correct record number, remembering that the first publication (whether it's interiorart or cover) should be the parent record. Mhhutchins 23:17, 25 February 2013 (UTC)


 * and that's why they were all wrong ^-^


 * I just accepted the submissions that varianted them all back to the same record Flying to Valhalla, so I have no idea at all what you were trying to do. Mhhutchins 18:51, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * There are two images, Flying to Valhalla's frontspiece "There Goes the Neighborhood",and the interior art from the George Zebrowski "Primitive Aliens". The "primitive aliens" image was also used for In the Distance and Far Ahead cover, and the "There Goes the Neighborhood"/Flying to Valhalla image was also used for Nell'abisso di Olduvai and Aliens and Alien Societies covers. Susan O&#39;Fearna 18:55, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Then all you had to do was remove the "Primitive Aliens" record from the "Flying to Valhalla" record. There was no need to unvariant every record just to remove that one. Hopefully, it's all correct now. Mhhutchins 19:08, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I had the books switched with the images. So Flying to Valhalla was varianted to the George Zebrowski short story illo and the book cover that went with it, too. And Primitive Aliens was varianted to the Flying to Valhalla frontspiece and the two book covers that have the same art were with the wrong "parent" record. It should be fixed as soon as In the Distance is linked to the "primitive aliens" Susan O&#39;Fearna 19:12, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

"Deadspean"?
Is this record correctly titled? Mhhutchins 22:29, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

I see you fixed this in a subsequent submission. Thanks. Mhhutchins 22:33, 25 February 2013 (UTC)


 * thanks, it's correct now ^-^ Susan O&#39;Fearna 16:35, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

The Chesley Awards for Science Fiction and Fantasy Art: A Retrospective
Hello! In your verified, could you please check that on p.174 Giancola's first name is indeed misspelled as "Doanto". Thank you! ForJohnScalzi 01:07, 28 February 2013 (UTC).


 * oooh, I hate typos! Thanks Susan O&#39;Fearna 17:34, 28 February 2013 (UTC)