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Contents

A very odd listing

Could somebody check this out? I think there is something drastically wrong here. There seems to be two artists with two drastically different pieces of artwork listed on the same page. MLB 00:21, 4 May 2018 (EDT)

Look at the types of the variants. Click on "Do not display variants or translations" and you get this - which is just the single cover we have in this mix. All of the variants are interior art which is what causes you to look again when you see it first.
So you have one cover (to The Solarians) and the other 4 books are there because they have the same cover as interior art. Which is why there is only one cover down in the cover view as well. So all is good. Annie 01:06, 4 May 2018 (EDT)

Novelization

Hello everyone,

The "Novelization" template mentions “novelization of a movie, TV show, game or other non-written work". Could it also include the novelization of a graphic novel, which is a partly “written work” ? The question arises for this title. TIA, Linguist 10:10, 6 May 2018 (EDT).

I'd vote for 'yes', since the emphasis for comics & graphic novels lies on the non-written side. Stonecreek 15:45, 6 May 2018 (EDT)
Thanks for responding ! Since no one else feels concerned about the matter, I'll go and tinker with the template, so as to include the case of graphic novels. Linguist 04:42, 8 May 2018 (EDT).

Variants of variants

I understand that one cannot have a variant of a variant. There is a fantasy art card listed under "Rowena" which is variant'd to one under "Rowena Morrill". I would like to variant both of these to the COVERART title. Could I variant the parent to the cover art and let the software magic make the variant follow? Or should I re-parent the variant, then variant the parent. (sounds like Dr. Seuss). There's lots of other cards, so I'd like to get this right. ../Doug H 13:55, 6 May 2018 (EDT)

The second variant is the correct one. I'll do this for you. Stonecreek 15:47, 6 May 2018 (EDT)
The software will do the correct thing (make both variants) if you variant a parent to another title. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:04, 6 May 2018 (EDT)

Series title for untitled map instead of publication title?

I have a series of 12 books all with the same untitled map. Is it acceptable to give the map the title of the series instead of the publication? This way it would be unambiguously clear that the map is -in effect- the same in all 12 books of the series? MagicUnk 16:15, 7 May 2018 (EDT)

Yes, or if the map has a title, you can use that (I've seen both done). You would need to make sure there are indeed all the same. Sometimes there can be small variances between books. But using a common title and merging would be more straightforward than varianting all 12 together. I would recommend a title note explaining they are all the same. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:51, 7 May 2018 (EDT)

How to "Title" Interviews which don't have a title?

I'm adding a new antho to the db and realized that after each story there is a short interview (Q&A format, a page or two long) with the author about the story. All the questions are the same for each author about how and why they wrote the story. There is no title for any of these. I presume they should still be cataloged as an "interview" in the db? If yes, how should I title each of these? Just the author's name? Include the author's name in both the title and interview field? If no, how? TIA - Zinnia 10:11, 8 May 2018 (EDT)

It'd be possible to title them with the author's name or the shortfiction's title (the second version would especially come to mind if there are one or more questions about the respective preceding piece). Stonecreek 14:33, 8 May 2018 (EDT)
Got it. Thanks! Zinnia 18:06, 10 May 2018 (EDT)

Consolidate Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth map

The books from Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series all contain the same untitled map (drawn by Terry himself). There exist 10+ additional interiorart title records in the database all referring to this same map. It therefore makes sense to consolidate these into a single title 'Sword of Truth (map)'. How would I do that, as there are quite a few contributors that PV'd the impacted pubs, and with the added complication that there may exist one or two variants (for example, versions missing Anderith and/or Renwold and/or Grafan Harbor - see here for result of my scrutinizing my Dutch books). Searching the internet, I think there are only two variants in existence, one with, and one without Anderith/Rewold/Grafan Harbor, but I would like confirmation, of course. Ideally, if the PVs (list below) could scan (or take a picture of) their version of the map an share it here with reference to which pub record it came from, it'd be possible to identify any variant if existing.
Ideas? MagicUnk 15:20, 11 May 2018 (EDT)

  • Wizard's First Rule (map) (1994) [INTERIORART] Gzuckier
    This (verified) and this (transient in hand) pub use version 1. ../Doug H 12:45, 14 May 2018 (EDT)
  • Stone of Tears (maps) (1996) [INTERIORART] Bluesman Holmesd Willem H.
    I have uploaded an image I called version 1 (ref) and it applies to this publication. Also applies to an undocumented map in Wizard's Rule that I will add once the dust settles. ../Doug H 16:57, 13 May 2018 (EDT)
    Also an unrecorded copy (9th printing) to be entered (transient) uses version 1. ../Doug H 12:45, 14 May 2018 (EDT)
  • Blood of the Fold (map) (1996) [INTERIORART] Bluesman Don Erikson Willem H.
    Also an unrecorded copy (9th printing) to be entered (transient) uses version 1. ../Doug H 12:45, 14 May 2018 (EDT)
  • Temple of the Winds (map) (1998) [INTERIORART] Gzuckier Don Erikson
    I have uploaded an image I called version 2 (ref) and it applies to this publication. ../Doug H 11:58, 14 May 2018 (EDT)
  • The Sword of Truth (map) (1998) [INTERIORART] Taweiss
  • The Pillars of Creation (map) (2001) [INTERIORART] Hauck
  • Naked Empire (map) (2003) [INTERIORART] Bluesman Hauck Don Erikson
    I have uploaded an image I called version 3 (http://www.isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Image:Sword_of_Truth_%28map%29-v3.jpg ref]} and it applies to this publication. ../Doug H 12:24, 14 May 2018 (EDT)
  • Chainfire (map) (2005) [INTERIORART] Hauck Don Erikson
  • Phantom (map) (2006) [INTERIORART] Willem H. Don Erikson
    This pub uses version 3 (transient copy in hand). ../Doug H 12:24, 14 May 2018 (EDT)
  • Soul of the File
    This pub uses version 3 (transient copy in hand). ../Doug H 12:24, 14 May 2018 (EDT)

If —

I've been doing some clean-up of some of the stuff dealing with the pulp Thrilling Wonder Stories and I see that the speculative non-fiction If —, a series of illustrated features has been listed alternatively as both fiction and non-fiction. As this is a speculative non-fiction feature, I would like to change the fictions into non-fictions and group them all into a series. Any suggestions as to why I shouldn't? MLB 00:30, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

Anthology compiler vs. editor

Here's one I haven't run into before. The Look Inside for an anthology submitted by Fixer has "Compiled by A" (over) "Edited by B". While "B" is obviously the editor in the strict constructionist sense, do we want to capture the compiler as the main "editor" and relegate the editor to the notes? Vice versa? Something else? --MartyD 09:58, 20 May 2018 (EDT)

Do you have a link to it? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:17, 21 May 2018 (EDT)
This is our entry now. A Look Inside. Eric S. Brown of the "compiled by" credit also contributes some interviews. --MartyD 06:50, 21 May 2018 (EDT)
Some magazines list multiple "editors", "fiction editors", "editors-in-chief", "editors emeritus", etc. I don't think we have been able to come up with a single rule for capturing this data.
In this particular case, given that the nature of the "compiler"'s and "editor"'s responsibilities is unclear, I would enter them as "editors" and explain the way they are credited in notes. Ahasuerus 08:59, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

Cover art on non-genre books

Is there an acceptable way to document cover art by 'genre' artists on non-genre books? The example is a cover by Frank Frazetta on an historical novel (as seen here). There are two novels listed, one exists as interior art from one of Frazetta's collections, but the other is undocumented on ISFDB. ../Doug H 10:09, 25 May 2018 (EDT)

I don't think there's a way to generate an unattached cover art entry. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:52, 25 May 2018 (EDT)
Technically you can add it to any book and then remove the title from the publication. This will end up with an unattached cover art. I am not sure that we should though - if it is not used for a genre publication (or in an otherwise eligible one) it is treated as a non genre essay from a genre author in a non genre book - it is not eligible. Just my 2 cents. Annie 12:13, 25 May 2018 (EDT)
About what I figured. But if there was a cover artist who merited inclusion for 'non-genre' work (in the way some authors are allowed non-genre work), Frazetta is likely to be the one. ../Doug H 16:31, 25 May 2018 (EDT)
I do not disagree. But so do non-fiction essays of Asimov that were published in magazines and not collected (for example). We cannot cover everything and we are mainly a fiction DB. One option may be to start collecting the non-genre work of Frazetta in the notes of the author - drop a {{BREAK}} and start listing with links after that. This way you have them collected, we can move them to title if we decide to and the information is there but without cluttering the DB. Annie 17:15, 25 May 2018 (EDT)

alternative author names in parentheses

Here's a question I can't find the answer to in help. What should I do if the author credit in the book gives two alternate forms of the author's name with parentheses, e.g. "Leopoldo Alas (Clarín)"? --Vasha 12:14, 30 May 2018 (EDT)

What is the actual name of the author? Leopoldo Alas? Leopoldo Clarín? Leopoldo Alas Clarín? Annie 12:18, 30 May 2018 (EDT)
Real name Leopdo Alas, during his life usually published under the pen name "Clarín" --Vasha 12:25, 30 May 2018 (EDT)
I have seen this type of attribution before, but I don't recall a Rules and Standards discussion about it. The only comment that I can find in Help is:
  • If the title page shows both an original and a subsequent name, use the original name. For example, Isaac Asimov's "Lucky Starr" books were originally published under the pseudonym of Paul French, but later reprints were given both names: "by Isaac Asimov, writing as Paul French". In these cases you should still enter Paul French as the author and record the dual credit in the notes.
but it's a somewhat different case. Ahasuerus 14:15, 30 May 2018 (EDT)
My gut feeling is to record as credited and variant it...Annie 14:38, 30 May 2018 (EDT)
Here is a previous comment by Marty on a similar situation. In that case, it was "Pen Name (Real Name)" and Marty argued, citing that "writing as" paragraph, that we should enter just the pen name in the DB. In the case of Clarín, where it is "Real Name (Pen Name)," the analogy to the "writing as" situation seems even clearer and there's a pretty strong case for using the pen name. --Vasha 16:40, 30 May 2018 (EDT)
I did say "gut feeling" :) It is very similar - yes. The question though is if it is indeed writing as Clarín or it is writing as Leopoldo Alas and the Clarín is there to connect the dots for everyone. The more I think, the more it feels like "Leopoldo Alas" makes more sense here... Annie 16:55, 30 May 2018 (EDT)
That makes sense: I guess the way to think about it is that when an editor prints alternate names this way, they are giving a credit and then adding an explanation in parentheses. --Vasha 17:05, 30 May 2018 (EDT)
I agree with the "giving credit and then adding an explanation in parentheses" train of thought. That makes the most sense to me. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 17:33, 30 May 2018 (EDT)

Adding publication series

It seems like the following group of Doc Savage novels should be a publication series like "Doc Savage (Golden Press)". Is there a way for me to create this series? I poked through all of the help and could not find anything on adding these. Thanks Tom TAWeiss 22:09, 30 May 2018 (EDT)

Edit each of the publications and add it in each individually :)Annie 22:26, 30 May 2018 (EDT)

Multiple untitled interiorart titles w/different authors

I know that the standard practice for untitled interior art is to call them "BookTitle," "Booktitle [2]", etc. But what if they are by several artists? Should I do a numbering series for each artist-- Polly Painter's Booktitle, BookTitle [2], and Sammy Sketcher's BookTitle, BookTitle [2]? Or should I number the illustrations in the book sequentially regardless of who did them? --Vasha 22:10, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

Series per author is the usual way. No need to differentiate if they are from different artists. We have quite a lot of these all over the place - I can look for an example if needed when I make it home - a little hard to search from the phone on an airport. :)Annie 22:19, 1 June 2018 (EDT)
OK, thanks. --Vasha 22:24, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

Bastei Lübbe Sonderausgabe/Doppelband/Doppelausgabe

I have some pubs that i don't know how to add. They each contain two former released publications including the original title and copyright pages.

They look like the publisher took unsold books, cut the covers, bundled two and gave them a new binding and cover. There are a dozen or so that i know of, numbering implies even more but not all might be genre titles.

Examples:

How should they be added, Anthology, Omnibus? Any advice appreciated. Werner Welo 02:30, 2 June 2018 (EDT)

Where they bundle up book-length works that were published separately, you should use omnibus. --MartyD 08:14, 2 June 2018 (EDT)

Zoltan Csernai

Hello, I duplicated the the Serbian Translation by create a variant. Can someone merge the stories? Thanks Henna 11:42, 11 June 2018 (EDT)

I do not see anything that needs fixing - did someone already fix it or is there still something to be fixed?
PS: For future references, you can submit a merge by either using "Check for Duplicate Titles" on the title, publication or author level or by using advanced search - both will give you the interface that allows merges. Annie 14:15, 11 June 2018 (EDT)
Hallo Annie, Hervé deleted the orphaned title. I know "Check for Duplicate Titles" and use it for all anthologies and collections (in most cases you are faster). Thanks for the hint to merge titles by using the advanced search. Thanks again Henna 15:33, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

ATom/Thomson #10267/#117280 confusion

Hello, Can one of the moderators assign the interior art for "Thomson" #117280 to "ATom" #10267 please. Thomson should be considered a pseudonym of "Atom" or vv. I've looked at the Thomson interior art from those New Worlds issues and it is the same style (and is from the same period) as other work by ATom (the latter has one in New Worlds #148). The 1938 cover for "Thomson" is unlikely to be his (aged 11 at the time). Thanks, Paul Fraser

So our Thomson contains works from 2 different people and the ones from the 60s need to be varianted under ATom? Technically do you do need a moderator for it - you need to submit an author change for the cover from 1938, a pseudonym for the Thomson that remains and then variant all the works. But I can do it for you if you can confirm that this is what you meant (and I am not misreading). :) Annie 17:59, 15 June 2018 (EDT)
Annie, it would take me hours to work out how to do all that, so if you wouldn’t mind . . .? Thank you, Paul Fraser 19:07, 15 June 2018 (EDT)
I will make you a deal - I will do that tonight and then I will post here the steps (with explanations and links) so next time you know how to do it. :) Annie 19:15, 15 June 2018 (EDT)
That would be great, thanks.Paul Fraser 18:13, 16 June 2018 (EDT)

(unindent) And here are the steps

  • Move the cover that does not belong to the same author under a new name: Edit the title record and add (I) to the artist name (if this guy had more works, I would have instead changed the name of our guy).
  • Create the pseudonym (Go to ATom, get the ID, then create the pseudonym from the Thomson page)
  • For each of the Thomson records, go to "Make This Title a Variant Title or Pseudonymous Work", usi Option 2 and replace Thomson with ATom in the author field to create the connection.

That's it :) Annie 15:35, 18 June 2018 (EDT)

Thank you. Paul Fraser 16:58, 18 June 2018 (EDT)

Images of Forgotten Books publications

Amazon provides some images akin to those displayed on the Forgotten Books homepage. Are these composite images of book cover and dust jacket, composite of two formats, or something else? Are they recommended here, or welcome, or something else? --Pwendt|talk 11:07, 21 June 2018 (EDT)

How to change omnibus contents to point to another title?

Hello. Will need your help to fix a screwup of mine :(. To start with, there exist two different Dutch translations of Jack Vance's Emphyrio: translated by Warner Flamen and translated by Mark Carpentier Alting. There used to be only one Dutch translation record, so I started with unmerging to end up with those two title records. So far so good. However, the omnibus Emphyrio / De Huizen van Iszm / De Zoon van de Boom will need as contents title Emphyrio translated by Mark Carpentier Alting (and the novel Emphyrio / De Huizen van Iszm / De Zoon van de Boom that got created shouldn't exist). How do I do that? MagicUnk 07:08, 24 June 2018 (EDT)

Step 1 - Open the publication record and use the "Remove Titles From This Pub" page (left menu, under editing tools) to remove the currently added variants. Step 2 - use "Import Content" to import the correct ones. :) Careful when you do unmerge with omnibuses - they do something a bit different - unless you are unmerging the omnibus or its cover, sometimes remove titles is the better way to do things. Let me know if you need some assistance. Annie 16:51, 24 June 2018 (EDT)

Contents for Alien and Philosophy?

I have added the non-fiction book Alien and Philosophy to the database because it's reviewed in Andromeda Spaceways Magazine and has articles about it in Sci Phi Journal and Apex Magazine. However, being about movies rather than prose fiction, it's not really in the main focus of this database. My question is, being as this is an anthology of essays, should I add all the contents, thus creating yet more questionably-relevant records? I have added them to start with; easy enough to delete them if people think I should. --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 12:15, 26 June 2018 (EDT)

I would have entered the review as an essay to start with. We don’t add books that are not otherwise eligible just because they are reviewed in our magazines. But if the consensus is for it to stay, then no content please. Annie 12:56, 26 June 2018 (EDT)

ISBN-10 as ASIN

I found an existing record where the ISBN-10 is entered in the ASIN external ID field. That does indeed take you correctly to the Amazon page; but is it frowned upon to use the field that way? Especially since the "Other Sites" Amazon link exists in the left menu? --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 14:04, 30 June 2018 (EDT)

I remove them when I see them and discuss with the editor. Every paper book that has an ISBN uses the ISBN-10 as an ASIN (or should be). If it is not a B ASIN, it does not belong in the ASIN field. Annie 14:09, 30 June 2018 (EDT)
That's what I thought. Fix submitted. --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 14:18, 30 June 2018 (EDT)
Keep in mind that ISBN-10s are only valid for "978" ISBNs. When Amazon offers "979" ISBNs for sale, it adds a "B" ASIN, e.g. see this paper book. Ahasuerus 15:05, 30 June 2018 (EDT)
Yep. Same happens for older books, books that had their ISBN added later and a few more corner cases. In all cases, if it is a B ASIN, it is the ISBN-10. :) Annie 15:18, 30 June 2018 (EDT)

Same story credited to author or translator

What would be the most elegant way to handle this? "The Butterfly Dream" or "The Dream of Chuang Tzu" or other titles was translated, or maybe retold, from an original attributed to Zhuangzi by Herbert Allen Giles. Some books (e.g. this) print this story with the author given as Chuang Tzu, others (e. g. this) give the author as Herbert Allen Giles. I want to combine them both under a common canonical title. I am thinking the canonical author ought to be 莊子 (Zhuangzi). So when I variant the ones credited to Giles, should I change the author to something like "Herbert Allen Giles (as translator)" and make that a pseudonym of 莊子, or should I just variant the story without pseudonyming the author? --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 12:54, 1 July 2018 (EDT)

The individual stories should be credited per their publications. So if Giles is given as the author in the publication, he should be entered as the author. For the varianting, it matters whether it is really a translation or a retelling. A translation with a mistaken credit would be varianted without a pseudonym. If it is a retelling, then it should be varianted to a title as by Chuang Tzu & Giles (and not to the original story by Chuang Tzu). Unfortunately, this can obviously be a bit subjective. -- JLaTondre (talk) 13:11, 1 July 2018 (EDT)
I have found a literal translation and it demonstrates that Giles was translating not retelling. So, I will variant without a pseudonym. Thanks. --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 13:24, 1 July 2018 (EDT)
Please be sure to add notes explaining why as it will reduce future confusion. I'd add them to the pub containing the translation as well as the title record. -- JLaTondre (talk) 13:44, 1 July 2018 (EDT)

How to enter a new translation in an omnibus

I would like to enter a publication which is an omnibus (two novels by Jules Verne). The title / publication will be new. However, both of the contained titles are new English translations. Is the simplest approach to enter the omnibus giving the titles, and then unmerge the titles, update the notes regarding the translation and variant them back to the French? ../Doug H 09:36, 4 July 2018 (EDT)

As this is a new omnibus, you just need to enter the titles of these translations in the new record (they cannot be already merged if you create a new OMNIBUS), then indicate the translator(s) at title level (use the {{Tr|Name}} model) for each novel. You then variant these new translations to their French originals (but do check they are not in the db first). Linguist 10:16, 4 July 2018 (EDT).
If you haven't done the submission yet, I suggest you include a note to the moderator that the contained novels are new translations and should not be merged. Some moderators try to be helpful and check for duplicates and do merges to save submitting editors some time. Here, that would not be a Good Thing™. --MartyD 09:19, 5 July 2018 (EDT)

In search of a Howard V. Brown cover

Fixer has added a new collection of Victor Rousseau's stories. Howard V. Brown's cover looks awfully familiar, but I can't quite place it and Google is no help. Would anyone happen to recognize it? Ahasuerus 21:35, 4 July 2018 (EDT)

Thrilling Wonder Stories, February 1938. Annie 21:53, 4 July 2018 (EDT)
VT created, thanks muchly! Ahasuerus 21:56, 4 July 2018 (EDT)
It was just a lucky coincidence - I was looking through the Thrilling Wonder Stories reprints the other day and remembered the cover. Happy to help :) Annie 23:27, 4 July 2018 (EDT)

How to structure a table of translations for a publication.

I would like some help setting up a table of translations for the title notes for a Jules Verne title. I expect to use the technique to document the translations for his other titles as well, but have only got one ready to go. The list is long enough that I expect it to go after a BREAK template.

I would like to use HTML to structure the information better, but don't see any easy way to set up a table. My expectation is that there would be sections for each language (currently three for this title), and within each section, one or more translations - identified at a minimum by the differentiating text, possibly the translator identification (name or unknown). Within each translation would be a linking references to the different titles using the translation - one per row. Probably only one row for most translations, but no guarantee. The linking references could include the year and publisher. There should also be a 'non-translation' translation for publications that have not identified the translation, with as many links as there are different titles. Where there is only one translation (I don't expect too many Icelandic translations, but do have them for four of the novels), this generic approach may be used.

I mocked a couple of things up and they look awful. Can anyone provide either a better approach or a mock-up?

Oh, and the approach may also work well for adaptations, another Vernian bugaboo. ../Doug H 23:10, 9 July 2018 (EDT)

I believe that our developer discourages using really elaborate HTML in database notes. Probably you should create your table on a wiki page (where there'll be plenty of space, too) and link to it from the notes. --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 23:16, 9 July 2018 (EDT)
Wasn't there a recent effort to get rid of a lot of wiki pages and get them into the database? ../Doug H 23:27, 9 July 2018 (EDT)
Still ongoing. :) However, tables ARE supported in notes so you do not need a wiki page. I would add it after a BREAK so people can look at it only if they want to but go ahead and have fun creating a simple table. It cannot be fancy (no parameters for the td/tr) but it should work for what you need here. Let me know if you need a hand with the table creation (in case you had never used tables in html - but it is straight forward - tr, td, th and table are all supported so this example is exactly what you want :) Annie 23:43, 9 July 2018 (EDT)
Wouldn't it be better to simply enter the translations into the database, and therefore let the database do the arranging? ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 13:53, 10 July 2018 (EDT)
I suspect that the problem that Doug is trying to address is that canonical title pages display a list of translated variants but do not show translator names or any other VT details. Unfortunately, the proposed solution would result in data duplication and data duplication inevitably leads to records getting out of sync.
Redundancy: Putting a table of translations in the main title is redundant, but so it the putting the translation text into each title variation of any given translation. If only variants of variants wasn't so complicated. ../Doug H 12:40, 12 July 2018 (EDT)
One way around this issue would be to change the way we display VTs on canonical title pages. We could add a "Notes" column, which would display each translation's (or all VTs') Notes text, to the VT table. Alternatively, we could display Notes as mouseover bubbles, which would be similar to the way we display publication formats, transliterated values, etc.
If we decide to add Notes columns, we may need to change the layout of the VT/"Other Titles" section. Currently it displays up to 4 tables side by side: regular VTs, serializations, translations, translated serializations. Adding a Notes column to just 2 of them would make the section too busy, so we may need to display the 4 tables sequentially rather than side by side. Ahasuerus 14:57, 10 July 2018 (EDT)
A user preference maybe? Or something similar to the toggles (the "Do not display translations" • "Do not display variants or translations" ones) that has "compact view"/"detailed view" as options? Annie 15:23, 10 July 2018 (EDT)
Adding another User Preference is certainly possible, but I am not sure it would work too well for users who use multiple devices (desktop, laptop, tablet, phone, etc.) Having to adjust your preferences every time you switch devices is a pain. Besides, even large monitors would be strained if we were to add Notes to the 4 tables. Imagine what this page would look like if each of the 4 tables showed VT notes. Ahasuerus 15:34, 10 July 2018 (EDT)
So you keep your preference to the shorter format and click on the toggle to show it when you need it? I work from my phone a lot so I have the covers not showing on the title pages for example (unless I am on my laptop for a a long time, then I switch the preferences as opposed to just clicking when I need it). I kinda like how the covers and translations are handled on that same page - and something like that for the variants/translations should work equally well for example. Plus it will be consistent with the rest of the page :) Annie 10:19, 11 July 2018 (EDT)
Notes are a free form entry field that can have extensive content. Even if limited to a user preference, I'm not sure how that could implemented in anyway that wasn't ugly... -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:23, 11 July 2018 (EDT)
I have deployed an experimental change to address the issue (in a small way.) Let's see if it helps. Ahasuerus 21:56, 11 July 2018 (EDT)

(unindent) You are almost right in stating what I'm trying to address. The slight difference is that my aim is functional, not technical - for anyone wishing to determine a match or non-match to a publication to be able to do so easily. Where there are multiple translations to a single language, differentiating them currently involves checking the title record for each translation and matching to the details in those notes. My approach of consolidating those notes in the source title saves time and highlights the requirement at the base title level to be careful in matching translations on the correct criteria. It does involve redundancy. I understand there is another project on the books to address translators and translations. My efforts are directed toward making available the data required to support the outcome of that project. I am not trying to push that project forward and I am afraid the partial solutions you are discussing are a distraction. I am looking for a specific short-term solution to support my clean-up of a specific author's works. I expect that the translation project will make it necessary to restructure all of my notes, but I hope that all the information required to do so will be present and may make a good test case. ../Doug H 08:51, 11 July 2018 (EDT)

OK, if it's a cleanup project, it should definitely go on a wiki page. I actually did the exact same thing for the numerous translations of Guy de Maupassant's "Le Horla" and created one page for the list of translations and another for the first paragraphs. As you can see the result is pretty mind-boggling and wouldn't be of interest to most users! I cannot see any reason to try to put all of that in the database notes, even after a BREAK.
I like the way I have it structured as a list & don't actually think it would work as a table (there'd be too much white space, for one thing). The one way that it could be improved is if you could pull up the first paragraph as mouseover text or something rather than having to click through to it (is there any way to do that in this wiki's version of wiki markup?) But at least I can link to the subsection for that translation rather than the whole page.
These pages have been in existence for a couple of years now, waiting for information about the publications listed at the bottom (do you have any of them, Doug?) --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 10:12, 11 July 2018 (EDT)

Coda: I have set up a table on a Wiki page and left a link in the title note for the original French title. This approach should work for now. Thanks to all for your interest and help. ../Doug H 08:45, 13 July 2018 (EDT)

obscure awards, new author

i added some books by a new author, http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?276030. Her bio says "2006 and 2003 Tassy Walden Awards for best young adult and middle-grade novels from unpublished Connecticut author". http://webspace.quinnipiac.edu/meyer/CV%20-%20Linda%20Ross%20Meyer.pdf. https://www.shorelinearts.org/tassy-walden-awards Is there a waiting list to put it on or something? thanks. gzuckier 18:12, 13 July 2018 (EDT)

Looks like only two of the categories ("Middle-Grade Novel" and "Young Adult/Teen Novel") would qualify, though it isn't a specifically SF award. I didn't see a link to winners of past awards on the site (it's been given out since 2001). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:21, 14 July 2018 (EDT)
The things that we typically consider when adding a new award type is whether:
  • The award is real and not some kind of promotional gimmick by a publisher/author
  • We have editors who are willing to enter the data
In the case of the Tassy Walden award, it looks real, so the only outstanding question is whether we have editors willing to work on adding the awards. Ahasuerus 13:08, 14 July 2018 (EDT)
So, do we have a volunteer willing to enter these awards? Ahasuerus 11:36, 19 July 2018 (EDT)
I can eventually get around to it. I'm working on finishing up the Seiun Awards right now, and then I have the Taisho Awards to do. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 15:54, 7 August 2018 (EDT)
Sounds good! Once you are ready to start adding award records, could you ping me so that I could create the award type? Ahasuerus 16:44, 7 August 2018 (EDT)

Unusual serial situation

How best to handle this? There's a story by Lilith Saintcrow that was first published as a short story titled "Maternal Type" and then, with the title "She Wolf and Cub: Prologue", as part of a serialized novel. So if I enter "She Wolf and Cub: Prologue" as a Serial and variant it to the Novel title, what do I do with the record for "Maternal Type"? --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 17:18, 15 July 2018 (EDT)

Update: I think I've figured it out. The prologue is already in the database as part of "Part 1 of 12." So I will make a note in that saying it incorporates the former short story "Maternal type" and a note on the story saying it was later incorporated into a novel. No need to variant them to each other. --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 17:57, 15 July 2018 (EDT)
That's not uncommon - novels containing previous stories or chapters pulled out and published as stories. Not as much in the genre but in the literary journals, it's almost a rarity to find a real story... Link them via the title notes - that's pretty much all we can do :) Annie 18:02, 15 July 2018 (EDT)

Too many title pages for varianting

Gerry Anderson's UFO (U.K.) and UFO-1: Flesh Hunters (U.S.) have been a few years on ISFDB under John Burke's pseudonym Robert Miall as unrelated books. I want to make the second a variant of the first. But...
There are presently four title pages associated with the two books. First, the parent Gerry Anderson's UFO by John Burke, and the variant as it was actually published, Gerry Anderson's UFO by Robert Miall. Then there's the second parent UFO-1: Flesh Hunters by Burke, as well as UFO-1: Flesh Hunters as by Miall.
If I had been the one entering Flesh Hunters to begin with, I'd have just made it a variant of Gerry Anderson's UFO by Burke, as Gerry Anderson's UFO by Miall is. But at this late date, there's that superfluous UFO-1: Flesh Hunters by Burke title page, which I can't delete; and so I'd be trying to make Flesh Hunters a variant of two pages at once.
How is it done?
The same thing applies to UFO 2 in its British/American Burke/Miall permutations. MOHearn 15:39, 7 August 2018 (EDT)

If I'm understanding you correctly:
  1. Pick which parent you think should be the canonical title.
  2. Go to the variant of the other parent and re-variant it to the canonical title.
  3. Once 2 is accepted, the extraneous parent can be deleted.
-- JLaTondre (talk) 19:09, 7 August 2018 (EDT)
I followed your instructions--perfect. Thanks! MOHearn 17:50, 8 August 2018 (EDT)

When is a multi-part novel really a series?

I am trying to fill in some gaps in the Jules Verne publications and would like to air a problem with titles being published in parts (as touched on here). As Annie has pointed out elsewhere, French novels suffer from this.

Mysterious Island (L'île mystérieuse) was originally serialized in three parts with separate titles, with each part was identified as part of the novel. There have been English translations of the entire novel, each of the three parts separately, and in two parts. These have been (I believe correctly) tracked as variants (translations) of the original.

Captain Hatteras (Voyages et aventures du capitaine Hatteras} was originally serialized in two parts, with each part was identified as part of Captain Hatteras. However, in this case ISFDB also has both parts (Les Anglais au pôle Nord and Le désert de glace ) as separate titles. These have been placed under a series (Captain Hatteras) along with the full novel (which would be an omnibus if these were separate novels). This is inconsistent with the approach of Mysterious Island.

What would be the criteria for using either approach, and do these titles actually follow that criteria? There are still the Captain Grant novels, and From the Earth to the Moon & Around the Moon to resolve. ../Doug H 22:38, 7 August 2018 (EDT)

Sriduangk. pseudonym

There is a note on B. Sriduangk.'s page as follows: "An undisclosed pseudonym. The name may be a constructed identity of more than one person, with the Wikipedia entry conflicting considerably with other independent research as to the author's identity and biographical details. Until any such details can be verified it may be a wiser course to leave them blank, as it is also a possibility that the stories themselves have been/are being written by another author entirely." I have found a story from 2007 published under the name that some research claims is hers, Venesa Burranupakorn, with the following bio: "Venesa Burranupakorn is an undergrad studying English Literature at the University of Durham, England. Her highest aspiration is that, after graduating, she won't have to stand in a street corner while pleading to passersby that she will write lit essays for food." Since there is debate over whether those two names should in fact be connected, I guess I shouldn't make a pseudonym relationship? What note should I write? --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 16:36, 8 August 2018 (EDT)

As per ISFDB:Policy, our basic standard for biographical data is "publicly available sources". In this case I would enter Venesa Burranupakorn's story, then add a note to the effect that some published research [insert link(s)] suggests that the author may be the same person as B. Sriduangk. We have similar notes for a few authors whose identity is unclear, e.g. Ludy Brack and Marcel G. Prêtre. Ahasuerus 17:08, 8 August 2018 (EDT)
I have submitted an author note, although I think the wording could use improvement. --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 19:33, 8 August 2018 (EDT)

Bastards

I came across Bastards, and looking at the description both in WorldCat and on amazon.fr very much doubt that this is specfic. To delete or not to delete? Same for Rainbow warriors which seems to me borderline at best, and there may be more pubs by Ayerdhal that should not be in the database. Thoughts? Advice? Thanks! MagicUnk 12:00, 9 August 2018 (EDT)

A Goodreads review says:
  • ...contre-espionnage/guerre inter-services secrets avec un aspect SF non négligeable dans un New York contemporain. SF qui passe plutôt bien malgré des termes et explications assez spécifiques de temps à autres.
so it sounds like it's speculative fiction for our purposes. Also, this author is probably above our threshold for non-genre works:
  • [Included:] Works (both fiction and non-fiction) which are not related to speculative fiction, but were produced by authors who have otherwise published works either of or about speculative fiction over a certain threshold.
Even if it turned out that the book contained no speculative elements, we would, most likely, still want to include it as "non-genre". Ahasuerus 12:16, 9 August 2018 (EDT)
Thanks Ahasuerus. Looks like it's a keeper then :-) (if it weren't for ...un aspect SF non négiligeable... as otherwise I would argue against invoking the over a certain threshold as imo the published volume of the author is way too low, especially when comparing to other authors out there...) MagicUnk 14:11, 9 August 2018 (EDT)
Unfortunately, we have never been able to quantify the "certain threshold".
My personal take on it is that the key question is whether the average ISFDB user views the author as "primarily genre". If the answer is "yes", then omitting the author's non-genre works would leave our users uncertain if the missing books are (a) non-genre or (b) genre but we missed them.
Other editors have expressed a variety of different opinions over the years. Ahasuerus 14:27, 9 August 2018 (EDT)

Kind of genre ?

Hello everyone. I am uncertain whether or not to label "non-genre" this magazine, primarily devoted to Fantasy, SF and horror films, but occasionally publishing genre stories or reviews of genre books. Is there a definite policy about this kind of publication ? Any brilliant ideas ? TIA, Linguist 04:49, 10 August 2018 (EDT).

I wouldn't label it "non-genre" since it does cover the genre. Listing it how you have it is good. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 11:34, 10 August 2018 (EDT)
Thanks ! I'll leave them as they are, then (unless strong objections arise later…). Linguist 12:00, 10 August 2018 (EDT).
I like the way it looks now, but this issue got me thinking about the larger picture.
It's my impression that we have been using the term "non-genre" in two different ways. First, there is the "non-genre" flag which can be set at the title level. At this time it is only used to determine whether to display titles in the "Non-genre" section at the bottom of Summary pages.
Second, we enter "genre" and "non-genre" magazines differently as explained in Help:Entering non-genre magazines. This distinction was created long before we had the "non-genre" flag, which is why the Help page doesn't mention the flag.
This difference in the use of the term "non-genre" is apparently a gray area at the moment. We may want to discuss it on the Rules and Standards page and update Help:Entering non-genre magazines based on the discussion results. Ahasuerus 13:02, 10 August 2018 (EDT)
Compare Jump Point Magazine with a similar solution to Linguist's: it is not marked non-genre, but there is the note "Gaming magazine; only speculative fiction content is included." Personally, when I enter a magazine that is primarily devoted to movies, games, comics, or the like, I only enter prose fiction. I suppose I might enter reviews of prose fiction if they had them. And I *do* mark it non-genre. But I guess it isn't particularly important whether you do or don't, since the note explaining why you have entered only partial contents is the most important thing.
A R&S discussion would be good but I'm not too hopeful it'll lead to concrete changes... --Vasha (cazadora de tildes) 13:11, 10 August 2018 (EDT)

Gollancz vs. Gollancz / Orion

Gollancz SF Masterworks (II) are generally listed under publisher Gollancz - see eg Double Star as an example. In contrast, the Millennium / Gollancz SF Masterworks series are generally listed under Gollancz / Orion - see Jem. On their back page it says: Gollancz, an imprint of the Orion publishing group. Looking inside the books, there's no distinction I can see: both say on their copyright page This edition published in Great Britain by Gollancz an imprint of the Orion publishing group. Is there a preference for one or the other? And if so, should I be encouraged to update the records to one variant only? (ie using Gollancz, as I believe we tend to list the books under the imprint?) Thanks! MagicUnk 14:40, 10 August 2018 (EDT)

nongenre piece by genre author in nongenre mag

A 2 page nongenre piece by Stephen King in a literary magazine; enter piece (only) or just skip it? thanks gzuckier 21:43, 12 August 2018 (EDT)

Per standards, it would not be included. I've seen that bent if there are genre works in the magazine, but if there are no genre works than it should definitely be skipped. -- JLaTondre (talk) 07:02, 13 August 2018 (EDT)
ok, thanks. gzuckier 14:54, 13 August 2018 (EDT)

can somebody rename an image for me please?

rename Image:Keith Parkinson.jpg to Image:Kirk Reinert.jpg thanks. gzuckier 22:15, 12 August 2018 (EDT)

There is no direct way to do that in the version of the Wikimedia software run here. Instead, I downloaded the image, uploaded it at the correct location, and deleted the old version. If you run into this again, you can create the new one and then tag the old one with a deletion template (providing an explanation). -- JLaTondre (talk) 07:09, 13 August 2018 (EDT)
ah deletion template. new to me, and useful. thanks. gzuckier 14:53, 13 August 2018 (EDT)
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