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If you've any interest in Wrebbit puzzles or Canadian postal First Day Covers our paths should cross here or elsewhere.

Contents

TASKS

CONVERSATIONS

Numbering SERIALs - impacts a few current entries, and Magasin d'Education et de Recreation - both volume-d and individual entries. See also this conversation with Linguist. Results would have no part ranges. Still working on whether Chapter XX would work instead of Part i of n. Note this allows re-use of titles from the actual Magasin to the bound volumes (doubly/triply so if you include brochés vs bound editions).

Canonical conversation regarding a Journalist in 2989, which has English translated to French and back to English with variable authorship. Not covered, but implicit in this is how many revisions make a story different enough to warrant its own title.

Yet to come:

Changes to Voyages Extraordinaire series to publisher series.

Ongoing Project (Jules Verne)

Series

  • Voyages Extraordinaires
    • The series is by Hetzel (then Hachette when they bought them out). This might be a publisher series. A quick scan of some early English editions bears this out. So what makes a series a series?
    • The Voyages extraordinaires series is based on Wikipedia - not date order. Once cleaned up and original French novels are entered and it becomes clearer, reset this. Making it a publisher series.
    • There was an earlier discussion regarding both multiple titles and series. Probably the origin of the 'problem'.
    • Later conversation with Ahasuerus dealt with history and conclusion that publication series is best and raised the problem of multiple series in a book.
    • Initial question posted on Help Forum as Series: Voyage Extraordinaires (Oct 12, 2018). Not much response, have pinged Linquist (Oct 20, 2018).
    • Linguist response makes a point regarding Hachette.
      • Good response. Some considerations are: making sub-series; Collection Hetzel; Libraire Hachette; Biblioteque d'Education et de Recreation. What kind of series are these, and which ones should we track. Note that "Collection Hetzel" covers books by other authors, e.g. H. Rider Haggard.
      • Another consideration - if we can't yet have multiple series, couldn't we track the desirability with a Template? To be raised in Community Portal.
      • Looks like a template for additional series.
    • There were difficulties encountered in modifying Series (e.g. Marvel) that led to some heated discussion. Best to let this cool, check the situation and post intentions before proceeding.
    • There are existing publication series for Voyages extraordinaires, Collection des Voyages extraordinaires and Collection Hetzel. And Bibliothèque d'éducation et de récréation .
    • Start tracking the data - need a list of titles and pubs and check the French editions to see which have which series - [Les] Voyages Extraordinaires and Collection Hetzel. Year may be significant. Will also need to crosscheck entries to include this.
      • The collected Bibliotheques don't seem to have any series, but an ad in vols 61-62 claims many titles are in the series, right back to the first. This could be (interpreted as) a reference to the series of books rather than titles.
  • Title Series
    • Several of the separate series (e.g. Barsac) are just one book done in parts. These should be merged back into the Voyages extraordinaires series. Still need to be looked at.
    • Two series are problematic - they are sequels to books by others. Which takes precedence? I'd like them under Verne, but there is a title note, whereas the other series wouldn't exist without the Verne sequel.
  • FItzroy editions
    • Fitzroy editions should be recorded as a publisher's series per this conversation with Ahasuerus. Then the notes on the I. O. Evans author page can be removed.
    • So far I've a list of the 63 titles in a spreadsheet. Columns to track what's in ISFDB and it's not a lot (20%). Ace editions complete, the 6 Panther editions completely missing (referenced here to give titles and search criteria). From the sound of it, most of these should be new translations (or abridgements / bastardizations). So would likely need to see copies of most of these to be sure.
    • All titles entered, a couple of odd bits to follow up on (e.g. Jules Verne (in error), no French original for Cynthia). Still need to variant generated titles to French originals. . Many missing from wiki. Should do a clean-up run.
    • I've run across I. O. Evans "Jules Verne, Master of Science Fiction" a couple of times. Has some of his translations of short stories. Check it out.
    • There's a couple of his short stories with first pubs in magazines by Mercury Press that predate the Fitzroy. Mistaken attribution of translation or real? Possibly from the "JV, M of SF" above (hence the look)? Based on ISFDB entry for this book, no short stories, just excerpts.
    • The encyclopedia seems to have pretty specific information regarding dates, publisher and prices. Also states whether it is his translation and/or abridgement and sometime the source. Might be worth going through and recording on the spreadsheet. Done.
  • Other publisher series
    • There are a number of 'unknown' books published in Manuscrit nantais, including L'oncle Robinson. Might be worth backfilling these as well. Best description is www.julesverne.ca. Also check out this list of titles and FRBNF35487581 and FRBNF37656501 at BNF.
  • Abridgements
    • There is a sub-series for abridgements and excerpts of a title (in a larger series - Captain Nemo). Once Voyages Extraodinaires is a publicatoin series, would this approach be useful for abridgements in general?

Titles

Making a List

  • Before publications, the titles need to be set up correctly and consistently. As well, will need to cover off unknown translations.
    • Scan database and generate a spreadsheet. C:\Users\Doug\My Projects\ISFDB\Jules Verne\Translation Note Generator.xlsx
    • Design decision - one translation page for all books rather than one per title. Break down by Novels, Short Fiction and Non-fiction.
    • Generate and load translation wiki page. Jules Verne Translations
    • Update titles with standard text to refer to translation wiki page.
    • There have been some updates to the wiki translations - are they incorporated in the associated titles?
  • Deal with the title notes for Omnibuses and Collections.

Publications

First Editions

  • The first French appearances are done. Most were in non-genre magazines so have simply been identified in the notes (in a pretty much standard format).
    • Seems that the Societe Jules Verne published original manuscripts that had been modified by Michel. These are nicely catalogued at COPAC although most seem to be at Oxford University. These need to be entered to allow the translations to be entered.
    • There is a Palik series published by the North American Jules Verne Society. Details on web site may provide translators. ISFDB has a series as well.
    • I have an image listing books published by Le Cherche midi. No time yet to pursue finding out more information. See UofM066 IMG_3082.JPG.
  • First French publication in book format. These are done, although only as far as the current Voyage Extraordinaires identified.
  • May want to revisit the first French publications (generally Hetzel's magazine, but not necessarily) to see if they should be entered. Biggest drawback in my mind is the 24+ parts that would be generated. Is there an acceptable alternative - e.g. using the bound editions for parts or skipping part numbers - maybe using a (serialized) suffix instead of )Part i of n)? Notes could track issues. Using pages might work but would mean including the same content multiple times. That's why this is a note and not something I'm actively pursuing.
  • First English publications - for each translation. Would like to get these as verified copies. Unsure about source and credit for other editions. Preference for Web sources as they are public domain.
    • There is the problem of alternate titles for the same translation. For now deal with them if they're intertwined somehow, otherwise leave them until I get to Other Publications. They get entered separately. Move on, nothing to see here.
  • There are two magazine publications of Mysterious Island using first translation - St. James Magazine and Scribner’s Monthly Magazine. I may not be able to find copies of original, but should still enter them against the translation.

Other Publications

  • All the copies for which I can provide verification. These are:
    • My personal copies. Recorded in my spreadsheet for now.
    • Miscellaneous copies, including CHBM. (Physical copies) This is ongoing. Recorded in my spreadsheet for now.
    • Winnipeg Public Library. (Physical copies) Recorded in my spreadsheet for now.
    • University of Winnipeg. (Physical copies). Need to follow up on Parkes volume splitting and a couple points highlighted in yellow.
    • University of Manitoba. (Physical copies and member access copies)
    • CHBM.
    • Miscellaneously sourced images
    • Downloaded copies.
    • Gutenberg editions - All currently recorded editions have had their source included where possible. There are additional editions that have not yet been entered.
  • Copies for which I cannot provide verification. These include:
    • Online copies (available for view, not download). Sources and indexes to be developed (currently somewhat ad hoc).
    • Online indexes - where no scanned copy is available. E.g. BnF.
    • Specific oddities
      • The Mysterious Island and here - first edition of Stump translation.
      • The Steam House in two volumes under 1 publication. Reminds me of the 10/15 volumes of Vincent Parke.
      • Is the Seaside Library considered a magazine by all entries, making the contents SERIALS - even if they are complete in an issue. The Help documentation talks about how to treat full novels in a single issue, check it again. Use of the SERIAL type, Seaside SERIES.
    • Enlisting others assistance at other libraries - e.g. Vasha at Cornell.
  • Additional information for existing or to support new entries

Clean-up tasks

  • Check that all of the publications are under right translation, including the unknown text ones.
    • Make a list of unknown translations with primary non-transient verifiers, and those with unknown text. Track verifiers and be able to re-sort list and generate text for each verifier with links to publications/titles.
  • There are all those other languages too.
  • Create translation wiki pages and update the title notes to point to them. There is some question as to how to refer to the pages - see this note on Ahasuerus's page on BREAK vs. Wiki.
  • Yiddish translations awaiting confirmation of which are which.
  • 1911 Vincent collection - when dust settles on multi-volume approach deal with National Alumni series and possibly other Parkes editions.
    • Looks like an interesting approach here - include the volume number in the title.
  • Check the Wildside and Freedonia editions particularly, others generally to see if they are reprints of novels with only one translation - as they are unlikely to produce their own.
  • Phare du bout du monde is not yet split into the original vs. modified. May be part of a different clean-up. Also Les naufragés du Jonathan. And Volcan d'or.
  • William Storitz does not have the first French editions entered (with variant to Michel Verne edition. Is there a republication of the original? Answer - must be - there's a title (Schulman translatino) to be teased out.
  • Voyage à travers l'impossible is listed as a novel, but should be a short fiction as it is a play and unlikely to be NOVEL length.
  • First editions were usually in-18, which is a size, not a format (i.e. HC vs. SC). These formats are generally listed as 'unknown'. This is because they were often sold either unbound or bound for different prices. Need to check the source/veracity of this claim and figure out whether to change / duplicate the existing entries. Linguist is one good place, but PWendt seems to know a lot about the period publication world.
  • The first translation of The Mysterious Island on gilead seems to be wrong - not matching the copy of St James magazine referenced in the TITLE record. Should check out the other editions and figure out what's going on.
  • There are publishers split between known and unknown translations that could logically be migrated to the same known. Best wait until verified copies dealt with first.
  • Godfrey Morgan publication has date for original, but is the 192x edition, x=1 for archive.org source and x=3 for julesverne.ca. Need to create first printing and re-date this pub. ../Doug H 12:59, 20 May 2020 (EDT)
  • This pub of Cesar Cascabel is published by Sampson Low, but uses the French title record, making it French. User inactive for years.

Jules Verne Translations Wiki

  • Go through the wiki and reset the spacing of the box line terminators ( |- ) to be with the set and not set off by a blank line.
  • Go through the wiki and standardize a) edits (see Begum and Hatteras for alternate approaches) b) sort order of titles within a translation c) order of translations. Based on what the documentation says. Un capitaine de quinze ans had an odd approach. As does Vingt mille lieues sous les mers for dealing with abridged editions of known translations.
  • Add a bit of explanation to the multiple book sections regarding the French titles and how they relate.
  • Serializations in the Wiki - do you put all of them (a la Fur Country) or only the first? Most are two part, but there is a 14-part in Headstrong Turk. What does the wiki documentation say? Think about the serializations where I link to the first part. Is there a better place to link? Do I include all parts? Should I specify how many parts? Is the point to have a complete list of the title links to match to? What about listing (Part n) and linking all of them and making the title link the magazine?
  • Maitre du monde has a note in the Cranston translation about earlier magazine publications. Create the pubs to generate titles so this can be handled properly.
  • Mathias Sandorf Hungarian edition refers to an earlier one with reference to OCLC, which should be entered. Either on its own or when scraping the OCLC.
  • Une ville flottante has Sampson publications under both known and unknown translations. Latter also has Fredonia so maybe deal with it then?
  • Find a way to extract data from backup and compare to see what's gotten out of synch.

Translation Wiki

Set up a new page with Requirements for translations. May want to set up sections for solutions and discussions. Solutions should be a) existing environment and b) future environment. Make sure requirements are hard-numbered to allow reference back to them.

  • Be sure to distinguish between requirements and solutions and keep them separate.
  • Translators (multiple, known and unknown) vs. editors vs. abridgers (as well as the whole question of when is a translation an abridgement).
  • Translations (used to distinguish). How much? May need to refer to particular passages or structure (e.g. number of chapters).
  • Does it need an explicit list of things that regular rules cover (e.g. case)? E.g. Multi-lingual publications.
  • Multi-part on either side, or both with different numbers?
  • How much of a difference makes it a different title? What about edits to existing translations (rather than new translations).
  • Distinguishing anonymous translators (two different translations of a text). Is Anonymous a single individual?
  • Handling of publications where text is unavailable or unexamined.
  • When lengths change due translations / abridgements, the original length holds over according to this discussion. Worth noting.

Illustrations

One edition of Autour de la Lune details each illustration as it has a title (in French).

  • Where I have copies, would I consider adding them to those editions.
  • How about the English ones?
  • What about building up a (private) image gallery in the process to facilitate this or simply to compare so proper credit can be given? Is there such a thing already?
    • Thought I'd seen something around. Check gilead.
  • How do you date interior illustrations - by first appearance under a title? Need to check, that's been my assumption (incorporating the translation as well).
  • Consider updating the notes for the generic INTERIOR ART titles to list the known titles. Cross-referencing individual entries back to the general would be nice but time consuming. And don't forget the translation factor.
  • Linguist has entered the engraver for some books (e.g. De la Terre à la Lune / Autour de la Lune). He lists them separately from the artist(s), but shouldn't they be by artist AND engraver combined rather than separate? Will have to take up with Linguist. Definitely before any massive clean-up.

Web pages and Tags

There is a tag for Internet Archive on some Verne titles. They point to publications. This seems wrong as there may be multiple and no way to distinguish them, just as there is no way to document the content of a web page or reason for pointing to one.

Abridgements

  • Abridgements: Are these variants of the original? Could they be variants of translations (e.g. Hardwick vs. Lindbrooke)?
    • Abridgements are separate entities. See this discussion. Will need to flag in notes that they are abridgements and link to original - preferably in a standard way. Maybe a tag or standard way of using an existing tag. Need to check.
  • An opinion: abridgements that don't claim to be so (either directly or through shared authorship) may stay as translations, otherwise make them abridgements.
  • As a reference point in documenting: Wizard of Oz example for anonymous abridgements.
  • Particular title(s) to note: Da Terra à Lua, Die Erfindung des Verderbens, Off on a Comet, Journey to the Center of the Earth, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea vs my submission regarding varianting.
  • See the line in Series regarding abridgements.

Other Points

  • Single entry for multiple volumes or separate. For example The Mysterious Island by Sampson Low is here, but the Scribner spans this (different series), this and this. Leave it for now and deal with all of the at once.
  • Catalogue of first Hetzel covers/editions. Bibliographie Analytique de Toutes les Oeuvres de Jules Verne: I by Piero Gondollo della Riva. Copy available for view at Stanford, available for inter-library load at UofM via student (not alumni).
  • There is an external id for BnF to be populated as I go. No template for Gallica but I should use a standard approach. So far it's been (modifying link):

<li>scanned copy at <a href="https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8600252z">Gallica</a> at BnF.

  • I raised a question about the difference between Omnibus and Collection (regarding Une ville flottante) here.
  • Some of the publications (Fitzroy?) that were entered were discussed on the talk page for P-Brane, since departed.
    • Will ping Ahaseurus then close this up.
  • Some scanned images have catalogues. These can be used to date (source unknown) and to price various editions. Or even to generate editions.
  • Should check OCLC - firstly for what is referenced against it and secondly for what it has that ISFDB doesn't.
  • Different coloured covers should each be a separate publication. Community Portal question.
  • Several people have done a fair bit of work on Verne - RTrace and Vornoff come to mind. Should cross-reference what and when and maybe get in touch with them.
  • Discussion of several Jules Verne points here.
  • Hunt and seek
    • Stanké published the first public French originals for some posthumous edits by Michel Verne. I have La Chasse au météore covered. I could probably find them. Of course there's the private editions for the true firsts. Mentioned in Verniana, I think.
  • The Ward Lock Journey in(to) the Interior of the Earth is inconsistent - I think they should all be into. E.g. the Gutenberg edition is title in, but the content is into in the text.

Follow up

  • Question to Chavey regarding Les Indes noires image used. No reply expected until summer 2019.
  • Did I enter all the Icelandic text for translations?
  • Once Rtrace replies to this query, change Seaside Library bedsheets to quartos.He says not to. While I disagree I'm not ready to make and present arguments.

Full Text

IF I got a good scanner, I might consider scanning copies of the various translations - or even originals.

  • Would need a list of translations possible and check off which I have (including format and where).
  • I've most of the Hetzel editions in PDF and they do allow a save to text. (Note - global change space^p to space, then a bit of line order, de-hyphenated words and paragraphing to do).
    • Save to text doesn't always work - maybe not on large documents (e.g. full issues).
    • There are online options but that's a hell of a lot of uploading.
    • Consider: PDFelement (Free trial), SuperGeek Free Document OCR [1], Investintech (limited trial) seem to be downloadable and free.
  • Not sure what you get out of Gutenberg - may want to check that first. I now have all the texts from Gutenberg.
  • I think purpose is to compare versions for differences - would that affect how to store it (paging, chapters, headers/footers, title) and how to compare them? Or would it be more visually laid out?

My new goals:

  • Maybe doing some clean-up from the Wiki Cleanup report.
  • Merging maps and excerpts that are the same under a single title. See this for note about using series for title when it's the same map. And this note for a query about images for interior art and a reference to a shared map technique. And for Recluce maps.
  • Cross-check Alan Dean Foster website bibliography with ISFDB. Notably "The White Hole" reviews in SFC.
  • Tracking different English translations of Jules Verne works. Would be nice to identify key differences so the publications can refer to which translation they are from. See translation guide.
  • Illustrated Classic Editions - inconsistent use of publisher / entry in series / credit for adapter.
  • Jules Verne - mostly translations. This is a good model. Each credited version could have the key phrase, and would allow for different anonymous versions. Another active Vernian (PatConolly) is here. A discussion on translation notes is here. The help page.
  • Hachette - this publisher operated under several names (See Wikipedia), but all seem to be listed under Libraire Hachette (one fixed). Should go through and check dates, look for copies (BnF?) and fix.
  • Consider going through the Icelandic collection at the university - besides Verne there is an H. Rider Haggard. Who knows what else, and no one at ISFDB is likely going to go after the Icelandic stuff.
  • Images - I've a directory of Frazetta and other images to check against the database for a) consistency in naming b) varianting c) missing links. There's also the idea of downloading all the images, matching to the database for unknown artists and using software to match my images against the unknowns.
  • Updating some of the help entries. Ideas - how to interpret the publication submission page (e.g. ISBN checksum error). Might even dig through code. Ha.
  • Maybe not ISFDB, but getting a document scanner for full text. Then get/build analysis software and scan the Happy Hollisters for fun, and the Burroughs (Tarzan), Doc Savage and other early works for analysis and for other project on source-inference tracking.

A big project I'd like to see started is a database of fictional names. I see it as serving the same role as the cast listing in IMDB.com, allowing links, lists and searches. ISFDB seems to provide an ideal reference point for sources. It would give me motivation to re-read all those books I've decided to keep.

My completed goals:

  • Actually reading a lot of my books and probably getting rid of them. More of a state than goal since it never ends, so moving to completed. (31 March, 2018)
  • Work my way through the books I expect to retain. My collection of primary verifications is growing. (19 October 2014)
    • Update - I've got all my own library entered and I'm managing to keep it relatively current, in spite of the books I keep picking up from my volunteer position with an organization that sells books.
  • Finish entering a number of magazines and fanzines I picked up but won't be keeping.
    • Update - done. (May 2017)
  • Getting at my Edgar Rice Burroughs collection.
    • Started. I've been in touch with someone publishing something (book maybe?) with all of the Ace and Burroughs variations. (July 2017)
    • Been through the books I own, annotating my list. Next I'll synch up the ISFDB and figure out what's a verification vs. updated vs. new pub. (Dec 2017)
    • Starting to verify what I own that has already been entered. (Jan 2018)
    • Next step is to add what is missing. (March 2018)
    • Clean up phase - based on notes of differences. (May 2018)
    • Book is, as yet, unpublished and may come back to this if/when it is. (June 2018)
  • Match up the images from the fantasy art cards to covers. Lots of varianting.
    • Update - done. (May 2018)

Things to track:

Jules Verne breadcrumbs

Cinq semaines en ballon: Translations

  • Gzuckier Looking for actual text. Nope.
  • Bluesman Looking for permission to re-parent Dent second printing.
  • Chavey Works of Jules Verne notice of intent and request for schedule of updates.

Talk pages where I've left questions:

Don Erickson

Nimravus

  • UK Pricing on Burroughs - a request for whether a sticker was used or not. - Was a sticker, update notes once N. approves.

Help desk

  • Discussion of multiple part first editions is here.

PatConolly

  • Jules Verne - pointer to Help desk discussion on handling multi-part titles. Response was made, but retaining this note as a reminder in case I need to check on a verficiation.

Useful links:

Clean up report - notably Series with Numbering Gaps, Series Names That May Need Disambiguation and I'm not sure what the problem is with the Wiki Cleanup reports.

Rules of Acquisition

NewPub rules.

Templates and HTML usage in notes fields.

Language Help and Title Regularization.

Linking templates for use in the wiki.

Contribution rank

73rd on list of Top Contributor's as of Feb 3rd, 2017 with 2361.

72nd as of Jul 1, 2017 with 2524.
71st as of Oct 22, 2017 with 2572.
62nd as of May 6, 2018 with 3492.
54th as of May 28, 2018 with 4151.
54th as of Apr 3, 2019 with 5090.
54th as of Nov 21, 2019 with 5903.
53rd as of Feb 17, 2020 with 6364.
52nd as of May 20, 2020 with 6964.
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