User talk:Rtrace/Archive2


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The Dragon Masters

I think the date on your Ace Single 16648 The Dragon Masters might be in error. I have a copy of Ace Double The Dragon Masters / The Last Castle which states "Third Ace printing: April, 1973" as the last line which I have taken to mean that 16641 is the 3rd time Ace has printed this story. (And our records support that). Ace image library only lists 16648 as a 'Later printing'. Kevin 03:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Alas, my paperbacks are horribly unordered, and many are three deep in the shelves, so it will take me a while to put my hands on this one. As I recall, the printing data is so stated in the book. Corrick's Double Your Pleasure agrees that your double (16641) is the third printing (of F-105). I wonder if Ace re-used the plates to print the single edition. I'll post again, when I can find my copy. ~Ron --Rtrace 12:56, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Understood and the issue can sit for a few more weeks or even many month till resolved. IIRC there was another discussion somewhere about Ace possibly reusing plates between doubles and singles, so it's entirely possible. Kevin 21:48, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I suspect that my single edition used the same plates as the double. The copyright page appears identical. I've added notes to that effect and removed the printing date. I doubt Ace would have issued both a single and a double version the same date for the same cover price. ~Ron --Rtrace 02:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

The Last Castle / World of the Sleeper

And again for The Last Castle / World of the Sleeper. The same double in hand The Dragon Masters / The Last Castle lists First Ace printing: August, 1967" for The Last Castle which differs from the record you have. Your record appears to be dated from a secondary source. Could you check the listing there to make sure it says July and not August? - Thanks Kevin 03:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

The Corrick reference does give the date as July and, of course, the book itself has no information. I would guess that the printing data from your double would be more accurate. Feel free to adjust the date, or let me know if you'd like me to do it. ~Ron --Rtrace 12:45, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Record updated with added note. Thanks Kevin 21:48, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


Added a statement of printing to [this], I always add this (if there) to show the source of the month. ~Bill, --Bluesman 22:37, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

The Green Hills of Earth

Found an artist credit for The Green Hills of Earth. Also, based on my 5th printing, suggest you check to see if double or single quotes are used on pages 74 and 90. Thanks Kevin 23:33, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

They were indeed incorrect and I've submitted a correction. Thanks for catching this. ~Ron --Rtrace 02:27, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Journey to the Center of the Earth (D-397)

I Updated your verified pub Journey to the Center of the Earth (D-397) to remove "A" from the beginning of the title to match my same copy in hand. I also shifted the pub to the correct Variant out from under the main french title listing. Thanks Kevin 07:42, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Galaxy 666 by "Per Torro"

Are certain that the publication date for your verified pub is 1968? The price and catalog number would make more sense circa 1975. The first US edition was published in 1968 by Arcadia House, so could the date on your book be the copyright date. Also Leisure Books was founded in 1971 according to its website. Thanks. MHHutchins 19:43, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

That was indeed the copyright date and I've removed it. There are cigarette ads that mention a 3/74 FTC report, so it had to be printed after that date. Thanks for catching this. ~Ron --Rtrace 02:32, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Dwellers in the Mirage

Found an Artist credit for your cover to Dwellers in the Mirage in my 1967 printing. Kevin 03:17, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The Torch

I added notes including the OCLC number to Your verified pub. -DES Talk 23:25, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Dr. Lao

In [this] pub, is there a date for the first printing? Could create a stub if there is. Also, I can see that there is a CDN$ price on the cover, but can't make out the number. Thanks! ~Bill, --Bluesman 22:03, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it only lists the second printing. I added the Canadian price. ~Ron --Rtrace 02:35, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Sky Pirates of Callisto [2]

Expanded the notes for [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 18:26, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

A question about a verified date

I noticed you verified a Magnum/Masterpiece Library edition of Wells' THE ISLAND OF DOCTOR MOREAU. [1]. You verified a date of 1968 for book that has a price of $2.95. I own an earlier Magnum printing with the same catalog number but with a price of $1.25. So a change may be needed. If you want I could do it or...Don Erikson 02:32, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I was working off a copyright date, which I've now whacked, in favor of a note. Thanks for catching it. ~Ron --Rtrace 02:45, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Welcome Back and new image tag template

It's good to see you back again! I've noticed you're uploading images, and thought you might not be familiar with the new C3 template which is a simpler way to add artist credit to image files. For example, you uploaded this image using this tag: {{Cover Image Data2|Id=THRTRC1950}} (35 characters). The new template would have been {{C3|THRTRC1950|Jack Gaughan|The Rat Race}} (43 characters). For those few more key strokes you've added the artist, and book title. The artist credit populates the lists in this wiki category. Most image file uploaders have started using this new template ({{C3|<TAG>|<artist>|<book title>}}) when the cover artist is known. If they're not known, a short cut is {{C|<TAG>|<book title>}}. Please consider using these templates when adding image files. And again, welcome back! MHHutchins 04:25, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, and I'll try the new tag. I have to admit I noticed my handle mentioned in a post you made on a talk page and it shamed me into doing some editing tonight. I was busy with other stuff for a bit and then away for Worldcon. I'll still be a little slow as I've got a beach vacation coming next week, but will probably have more time in September. ~Ron --Rtrace 04:40, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Nameless Places (Arkham House anthology)

Can you re-check to see if the story "The Warlord of Kul Satu" in this anthology is credited as by "Brian Ball" or "Brian N. Ball"? Thanks. MHHutchins 16:50, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it is just "Brian Ball", and I've made the first change with the intent of creating a variant under the full name after. I noted that there also seems to be a variation in the title "Kul Satu" in my anthology (which I've verified) vs "Kal Satu" in this anthology which hasn't been verified. Locus has the second spelling. Would you recommend going with the spelling in my verified copy over what Locus states? ~Ron --Rtrace 23:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
I suppose there's a possibility that the story is titled in the other anthology as Locus states. So the best thing to do until that anthology is verified is to make them variants. Since yours is the original appearance of the work, I'll make it the parent record. Thanks. MHHutchins 03:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Doc Methuselah

Scanned in an image and expanded the notes slightly for [this]. My copy does have a printing date stated, even the very early CDN printings had a date when some of the US ones didn't. ~Bill, --Bluesman 17:04, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Those crazy Frenchmen

Can you check to see if in every instance it occurs in this book that the word is spelled "Boudaries"? And it actually took three artists to create the cover?  :-) Thanks. MHHutchins 01:44, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

The spelling is my error, and I'll fix it, one typo, several cut and pastes. The cover is actually credited (on the back cover) to those three artists.--Rtrace 01:59, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Crossing the Boundaries: French Fantasy from Bragelonne

The user Tclegg has updated your verified Crossing the Boundaries: French Fantasy from Bragelonne and changed

  • Translations into English by Tim Clegg
  • Translations into English by Tom Clegg

I approved the update but it's something you may want to double-check. --Marc Kupper|talk 04:28, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Garrett's Takeoff! (your verified pub)

I was looking at a (borrowed) copy of this pub, & noticed that one story, "The Best Policy" (on page 57) was not in TOC. So I thought I'd check for entries in the database. Your verified pub indeed lists this story; but unless the TOC in yours is different from mine, isn't this worth a note in the pub? -- Dave (davecat) 22:22, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Secondly, I note that the reviews in verse are all listed twice. I'm guessing that this is for the purpose of allowing them to appear both as reviews & as poems, which probably makes sense; but, again, shouldn't the pub notes say something about this? -- Dave (davecat) 22:22, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

If you agree but don't want to be bothered, say so & I'd be happy to do it. If you disagree, say so on that, of course. Thanks. -- Dave (davecat) 22:22, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I just verified this earlier pub which seems to have the same ToC issue, which I have noted. -DES Talk 19:51, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Oh. In my edition No Connections appears as the variant . . . No Connections with a leading ellipsis. Does your copy have the ellipsis? -DES Talk 20:18, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
In my borrowed copy of the 2nd edition, it has the leading ellipsis at the head of the story, where it matters, but not in TOC. FWIW. -- Dave (davecat) 02:03, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I've added the notes about the ToC differences and am entering the edits to fix the missing ellipsis. I didn't replicate the note about the reviews from this other pub. This help page indicates that reviews should be entered in just this manner (an Essay in the general contents section with an additional record in the reviews section). This always results in two lines listed for the review. In this case I did enter the general contents items as poems rather than essays due to their format. Since reviews always appear this way (discounting the Essay vs. Poem), I didn't feel it necessary to note. However, if someone feels strongly, I'll add the note. Thanks to all for catching the errors. ~Ron --Rtrace 04:37, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I think you're misunderstanding that help bit, although the part about "individual reviews in a volume of critical essays" sounds like it might mean what you think. Not sure on that one. (What I'd take it to mean, though, is that there should be an essay on p. 217 "Reviews in Verse" (with the quotes, since that's the way it appears at the head of the essay—another note on TOC differences!), as a heading for the section of reviews, followed by a review entry for each individual review. That's the way magazines are handled, at any rate. You could ask someone more knowledgeable than I am about books of this sort (mhhutchins, say, or blongley).) -- Dave (davecat) 14:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Of course, you could also go to the extreme of documenting all the individual forewords & afterwords, of all the individual stories. I might have, myself. The fact that they're not given any titles of their own, & that they're often no more than a sentence or three long, militates against that. If I'd thought of it (if I were doing this pub, I mean), I'd probably have entered a note on them as a group. -- Dave (davecat) 14:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Good on also catching "Master[s] of the Metropolis", BTW. I'd missed that one. And don't let me (or anyone) nitpick you to death; there's almost always something else one could have done. -- Dave (davecat) 14:53, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
When there is a review column in a magazine, with multiple reviews, I generally enter one essay for the column as a whole, and one review entry for each review. For five reviews, this results in 6 lines (not 10). It is, however, rather unusual for a review to also be entered as a POEM, which is why I thought a note was worthwhile, but it isn't something I would insist on. -DES Talk 15:15, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
The story forewords and afterwords in Takeoff! didn't seem (to me) significant enough to index separately -- this is IMO a case-by-case judgment call. I did it differently just yesterday in The Best of Gene Wolfe but there the afterwords seemed to me to include significant information on the origins and content of the stories, and some were more than a full page. -DES Talk 15:15, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

(unindent)Based on the discussions above, is the Title level note, which currently says "The second edition (1986) adds one story "Masters of the Metropolis" ", accurate? As far as I can tell, both verified publications include the story, so it looks like the Title level note should be deleted. Ahasuerus 22:22, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

It certainly appears that the title note should be deleted. Do you want to get buy in from DES first? --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 01:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
"Masters of the Metropolis" is certainly in my copy, which i am pretty sure is the first edition. There is a difference between ToC and Story title page (Master vs Masters) but that is all. I don't know the source of this note -- if there was an edition that omitted this story, I haven't seen it and we seem to have no record of it. I think the note is in error. -DES Talk 05:08, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I have deleted the title note. -DES Talk 05:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I was just going to do that after your first post, but by the time I got there, poof... it was gone.--Ron ~ RtraceTalk 05:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! Ahasuerus 14:41, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

The Field(s) Where the Satyrs Danced by Dunsany

Can you re-check your copy of The Ghosts of the Heaviside Layers and see if the story "The Field Where the Satyrs Danced" might be "Fields". I'm holding a submission which wants to merge your title record with this one. This one has one verification but by an inactive editor, but I think yours is the correct one. It had 512 Google hits while the other only had 7. Thanks for checking. MHHutchins 03:34, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Mine is definitely "Field" on the title page, table of contents and an extended copyright page which indicates that it is originally from the June 1928 issue of Atlantic Monthly. --Rtrace 04:15, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for checking. Just wanted to be double-sure before I rejected the submission. MHHutchins 04:18, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Swords and Deviltry introduction question

In working with my copy of the November 1973 (2nd) printing of Swords and Deviltry, I see the Author's Introduction (Swords and Deviltry) is dated 1970. But in my copy, that introduction is signed "Fritz Leiber, San Francisco, June 4, 1973". So I'm thinking it can't be 1970. Does your verified 7th printing by any chance say the same thing? Thanks. --MartyD 10:33, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The introduction in my copy is dated identically to yours. I think you've been asking each of the verifiers, so I'll let you make the edit when you get answers from all. ~Ron --Rtrace 02:24, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
I'm not terribly hopeful that any of the other verifiers will respond, but we'll see. It's pretty blatant, so if I don't hear anything, I will change it and leave them each a second note.... :-) Thanks for checking. --MartyD 10:38, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Didn't hear from anyone else. Changed the date to 1973-11-00 (date of the 2nd printing). --MartyD 11:22, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

The Dark Intruder/Falcons of Narbadedla -- Question on Black and White?

Morning! This. [2]. I have the 1972 printing and it is NOT "Black and White", instead it is "Black & White". Could you check this please? Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 11:24, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

It looks like you got your answer from one of the other verifiers. Thanks for catching it. ~Ron --Rtrace 02:28, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Greyhaven - added essays/re-numbered contents/notation

Afternoon! Sincere apologies if this bothers you. This. [3]. I added the signed essays by Wollheim (pg. 1) and MZB (Epilogue). I also added the "About" essays before most stories (actually all Abouts) and the "Bardic Revels" essay, all of which are unsigned, but I think of some value to people researching those authors. I hope this does not bother you. Thanks, Harry --Dragoondelight 20:40, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm fine with all the additional information. Thanks for adding it. ~Ron --Rtrace 02:29, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

"Free as Air" or "Free as the Air"

Hi, could you check if the Keller story here should be "Free as the Air". Cheers Jonschaper 05:32, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that, the title should be "Free as the Air". Additionally, I noticed that I've got the wrong variant of Keller's name on this collection (there is no M.D.), so there are a number of edits required. I'll fix the title in the course of the other edits. Thanks again. ~Ron --Rtrace 13:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Jaunters' vs Jaunter's

Hi, could you please check the placement of the apostrophe in the title "At the Cross-Time Jaunter's Ball" here: Thanks Jonschaper 04:32, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

You are correct, it should be Jaunters'. Before I correct it, you wouldn't happen to be asking because you have the AvoNova printing? It's not verified, and I suspect the story would have the same title with the correct spelling. Locus has it wrong (I no doubt cut and pasted it from there to avoid typos), but they don't list the contents for the reprint. Thanks for catching it. ~Ron --Rtrace 06:23, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
No, I don't have the other publication so I'm not able to determine if the typo originated with that. Jonschaper 00:40, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
I went ahead and corrected it for both anyway. I meant to include a note about the Locus error, but remembered after I hit enter. Thanks again. ~Ron --Rtrace 00:49, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Lovecraft's Horror in the Museum

Can you recheck the title of Barlow's story "To A' the Seas" in this collection? According to Wikipedia it should be "Till A' the Seas" which would match the title in the 2007 Del Rey reprint (according to OCLC). Thanks. MHHutchins 01:56, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

It should be "Till" and I've submitted a correction. I noticed that you appeared to be editing a bunch of Lovecraft today. I've been setting my paperback collections aside as I've been going through my collection, thinking it might be easier to hit them all at once. Now you'll have it all fixed! Let me know if there is anything else you'd like me to look up. I've also got numerous secondary sources for Arkham House. ~Ron --Rtrace 02:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
There are two stories that Lovecraft wrote with Winifred V. Jackson, which were originally published as by Lewis Theobald, Jr and Elizabeth Neville Berkeley: "The Crawling Chaos" and "The Green Meadow". They were reprinted later under his real name and her pseudonym which is occasionally "Elizabeth Berkeley". Can you check how the stories are credited in Horror in the Museum both the 1970 and 1989 revised editions? And if you have any editions of The Doom That Came to Sarnath collection or the Arkham Beyond the Wall Sleep, it would help as well. In fact, if you have any sources for any of the publications of these two stories, it would be a blessing. At the moment they are so screwed up, I can't tell heads from tails. At least I've got the other "revisions" in good shape (you know, Bishop, Heald, Eddy, etc.). Thanks. MHHutchins 03:25, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Funny, you working on Nelson "S" Bond, and me on Lovecraft. Weren't we doing the same thing back in January??? MHHutchins 03:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
The Bond collection just arrived in the mail today. I sometimes think that we have the wrong canonical name for him and David H. Keller. I have two printings of The Doom that Came to Sarnath. I don't own Beyond the Wall of Sleep, but all of my secondary sources list the stories identically. I'll unindent:
    • with Elizabeth Berkeley
  • Horror in the Museum 1970 (Derleth)
    • H. P. Lovecraft and Elizabeth Berkeley
  • Horror in the Museum 1989 (Joshi)
    • Elizabeth Nevillle Berkeley and Lewis Theobald, Jun. ("The Green Meadow" also listed as "Translated by"), Joshi states in his "A Note on the Texts" that both Lovecraft and Jackson used pseudonyms
  • The Doom That Came to Sarnath (only "The Crawling Chaos")
    • with Elizabeth Berkeley

Secondary sources for BTWOS: Thirty Years of Arkham House by August Derleth Sixty Years of Arkham House by S. T. Joshi The Arkham House Companion by Sheldon Jaffery Arkham House Books: A Collector's Guide by Leon Nielsen

Hope this helps, and good luck ~Ron --Rtrace 03:55, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Triptych of Terror and other no-editor-credited anthologies

With the relatively recent proliferation of anthologies with novella-length works by different writers and without editor credit, we have loosened the requirement that an editor be explicitly credited in the book before it becomes part of the ISFDB record. Instead, we're putting the names of the writers who are credited on the title page (not the table of contents page.) I entered the original record for this anthology, based on the OCLC record which gives "responsibility" to the three writers. I and those others who have been doing this consider this approach to be the best solution to an awkward situation, as it's similar to how Ace doubles have been entered and other multiple-author books without editor credit. I don't even know if this has come up on any of the community pages or spelled out in the help pages, but feel free to bring it up if you feel further discussion is necessary. Thanks. MHHutchins 23:36, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

That's fine. Go ahead and reject the edit. I tried to go with "uncredited" as that is what the help pages seem to suggest, but I'm happy to treat these as you say. There are also other examples where it has been done differently ([4] and [5]), but that just points to an evolution in how uncredited anthologies are handled. I missed the subtitle previously and will be submitting another edit to the pub. Thanks. ~Ron --Rtrace 22:32, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

ESP Worm

Expanded the printing statement for [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 16:13, 13 September 2009 (UTC)


Added a Currey note to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 21:46, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Bending the Landscape: Fantasy

I've added the note "First printing per number line" to Bending the Landscape: Fantasy. The odds are high that you also have the first printing. --Marc Kupper|talk 01:32, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Title merge for Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

I'm trying to sort out what this will do.

You want to merge the 2nd line into the 1st, dropping the second title

  1. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and Weir of Herminston
  2. The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and Weir of Hermiston:

Each of those publications have one title.

  1. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and Weir of Herminston
  2. The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and Weir of Hermiston: And, Weir of Hermiston (Oxford World's Classics)

One thing I see with the second is the publication is titled on the front and back cover

  • Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde / Weir of Herminston

There is no "and" between the two stories. As one is the USA and the other UK edition it's possible they have slightly different titles even though they are both from Oxford University Press (or one of its imprints).

I would suggest leaving the title records separate. One will have Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and Weir of Herminston and the other will have Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde / Weir of Herminston. --Marc Kupper|talk 05:48, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I suspect they should both be the same. I'm working from an undated 13th printing which is printed in Great Britain and has both UK and US pricing on the back cover. My copy has the shorter title on the cover: "Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and Weir of Hermiston" and a longer title on the title page: "The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and Weir of Hermiston". My copy additionally states "First published as a World's Classics paperback 1987" and it matches ISBNs with publication in title #1 above.
My goal was to have one title, with three publications (the 2 existing and my undated one). When I started, both these titles (and pubs) were listed as novels, and with the titles that the pub records currently hold. I already submitted edits to change the title records to omnibus and to remove the extra ": And, Weir of Hermiston (Oxford World's Classics)" (though I missed the colon). The further edits I intended were to merge the two titles into one, next remove the colon that I missed, convert the two pub records to omnibus adding both the contained novels and the introductions and other essays based on the contents of my copy. Finally, I intended to add my copy.
Since my copy matches both the title/pub #1 (ISBN), and #2 (title and publisher, editor and cover art), I figured they were all the same title. Please let know if you agree, or if I haven't explained by intentions well enough. Thanks. ~Ron --Rtrace 06:59, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
We always use the title on the title page meaning it'll be The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and Weir of Hermiston. That's good to know though as one of the editions is on and while it has Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde / Weir of Herminston on the front/back cover it was filed with the Library of Congress as The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde and Weir of Hermiston. I approved the merge into The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and Weir of Hermiston: and then removed that trailing colon. I suspect you'll be updating the publication records and can change their titles to match what's on the title page. --Marc Kupper|talk 07:46, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Phillip Foglio

Hi, can you double-check if Phil's name is spelled with 1 or 2 ls here

If it's "Philip" that would decrease the number of variations in his name. Cheers Jonschaper 05:15, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

There is indeed only one "l" and I've submitted a change. Thanks for finding this. ~Ron --Rtrace 11:53, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Eric vs Erik Fennel

Hi, could you check the spelling of this name here If it is "Erik", that would eliminate a variant spelling. Thanks Jonschaper 06:10, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

It is Erik. I assumed that the unverified 1st printing is identical to the second and submitted a change for the entire title. Thanks for catching this. ~Ron --Rtrace 11:54, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Authorship of The House in the Oaks in Dark Things

In your verified Dark Things, you have "The House in the Oaks" credited to just Howard, but it appears Derleth completed a previously unpublished fragment. In Derleth's story list in Locus1, this is cited as being by both (well, by Derleth "with" Howard), originally published in Dark Things in 1971. Would you double-check? Thanks. --MartyD 11:02, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

It does actually have a note that it was completed by Derleth. I've submitted a merge. Thanks for catching this. ~Ron --Rtrace 03:06, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

August Derleth / Stephen Grendon mystery story

Can you look at this issue of the Italian magazine Urania, and see if you can help solve the mystery of the story by "Ernest Blyedown". The story was originally published as "Il mistero della quercia" (lit. The Mystery of the Oak) as by Stephen Grendon. Would that title fit with any of the "Stephen Grendon" stories Derleth wrote? Thanks. MHHutchins 14:43, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I've checked 100 Books by August Derleth, August W. Derleth (1909-1971): A Bibliographical Checklist of His Works and The Collector's Index to Weird Tales (I think WT is where he primarily used the Grendon name), and none of the titles seem at all close. If we could get an English translation of the first line or two, I could check against the stories in this which includes most of the Grendon stories. ~Ron --Rtrace 03:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
I'll see if I can get Ernesto Vegetti to re-translate back into English the first few lines (that's always good for a laugh!) Maybe the names of characters would be even better (unless they were changed to Mario and Luigi). Thanks. MHHutchins 03:33, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
The main characters are named Quincey and Rodey. Does that help? MHHutchins 18:14, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Ole Doc Methuselah

I changed the pagenumbers in this verified pub for the stories "Ole Mother Methuselah" (from 7 to 164) and "Ole Doc Methuselah" (from 164 to 7) to get them in the right order. Thanks Willem H. 09:31, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Brak the Barbarian Versus the Mark of the Demons

I added the prefatory not, and a note about the cover artist to this verified pub to match my copy. Thanks Willem H. 20:12, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Machen's The Three Imposters

I have a submission which wants to unmerge this pub from its title record. If the reason is the extended title, I think the title record should be changed and the pubs kept together as almost all of them have the extended title. Then we can check on the one with the shorter title (Dover) to see if it is correct. What do you think? MHHutchins 17:56, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Now I see, it's the spelling of "Imposters" vs. "Impostors". I'll accept the submission and see which of the others should be moved also. Thanks for catching it. MHHutchins 17:59, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
I did a little rearranging, but am stumped on a few pubs. This edition has it spelled "Impostors" on the cover. Can you recheck to see how the novel is titled inside? Thanks. MHHutchins 18:09, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
I missed the spelling variations entirely. Actually, the Ballantine Adult Fantasy is an omnibus rather that includes the novel, rather than the novel itself, which was my reason for the unmerge. I'll have to double-check on the Chaosium edition when I get home tonight. ~Ron --Rtrace 18:53, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Well the spelling is the easy part. Reginald, Tuck, both Bleilers and both my copies agree that it should be spelled "Impostors". Additionally, Bleiler 78, Reginald and Tuck all call it a collection (Bleiler 48 doesn't specify collections). In both my copies, the individual stories have their own title pages and the Chaosium omnibus separates them in the table of contents as well. Lastly, I can find the extended title (...or, The Transmutations) only in Reginald (for the 1895 John Lane edition) and within the 2001 Chaosium omnibus. Reginald specifically lists the 1923 Knopf edition as only "The Three Impostors" and mentions that it adds one story, though it doesn't say which (and Tuck doesn't help). I'll go ahead and start tackling this. I'll fix the spelling on the titles but I'm going to leave the subtitle on each record where it already exists (I suspect that the secondary sources just omit subtitles). Though, I'll remove it from the Knopf, since Reginald makes a point of giving it a separate entry without the subtitle. I'll also change them to collections and add skeleton records for any Tuck mentioned editions we don't currently have. What a can of worms, but it should be fun! ~Ron --Rtrace 02:58, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
I accepted the submission making the title a collection, but that title record was actually of the novel which screwed up your Ballantine Adult Fantasy pub. I'm leaving it alone until you've finished, and will accept any submissions. Let me know when you want me to take over. I think the story in the Knopf edition was "The Red Hand" (I remember that from looking at some of the OCLC records this afternoon.) I'll let you decide if it should be an omnibus or a collection. At the moment it straddles the fence rather precariously. MHHutchins 04:28, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
I just found the OCLC record for the Knopf which makes it the same omnibus/collection as the Ballantine. It also looks like this later Knopf printing also has the same contents. I'll merge it with the BAF. I'm probably not approaching this in the most efficient manner, but I know how I want to end up. --Rtrace 04:50, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
I'm done for tonight, but I'll look at these again tomorrow. It looks like some of the titles are getting dropped when I use the import tool. I also have 2 more editions to enter from Tuck. (Secker and Corgi with an alternate title) --Rtrace 05:51, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

The Way of Ecben: A Comedietta Involving a Gentelman

Gentelman or Gentleman? Would have changed it myself but stranger things have made it into print. Thanks.--swfritter 13:54, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Obviously spelling (or rather typing) is not my strong suit. ~Ron --Rtrace 14:07, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


Is "About Randall Garrett and Just Another Vampire Story" attributed to "Marion Zimmer Bradely" or "Marion Zimmer Bradley" in Greyhaven, please? Ahasuerus 16:27, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Fix submitted. Thanks. ~Ron --Rtrace 20:42, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

H. P. Lovecraft's Book of Horror

Added an OCLC number to your verified pub. -DES Talk 21:54, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Great Tales of Terror and the Supernatural

I added an OCLC number to your verified pub of Great Tales of Terror and the Supernatural. The OCLC record says it is for a "First printing", but I didn't want to add that to the notes in case it did not match your verified copy. -DES Talk 22:28, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

There is no statement of printing anywhere in the book, just a copyright statement for 1944. Is the OCLC record stating that it should state "First Printing" or merely that it is a first printing? ~Ron --Rtrace 20:48, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Elric the Sleeping Sorceress and the mystrery of the secret alphabet

I was cleaning up Unicode characters this morning and ran across this publication which you verified a couple of weeks ago. The map was credited to "Н. Михайлов", i.e. "N. Mikhailov" entered using the Cyrillic alphabet.

Unfortunately, the ISFDB software doesn't fully support Cyrillic or even Latin-2 characters at this time. We can enter them, but they break various links and searches :-( I have changed the spelling of the name to "N. Mikhailov", but I am not sure what to do about the title. Was it supposed to be "Melnibone" ("Melniboné"?) or something along similar lines? Ahasuerus 19:48, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Gee, and I though I was being good finding the characters in the Wikipedia edit screen and cutting and pasting character by character. The book does in fact translate the title to "Melniboné" (with the accent on the e). It makes no translation or transliteration of the artists name but only gives it using the Cyrillic. Going forward, I'm a little unsure as to what character sets I should avoid. I find the character set in the Latin-2 Wikipedia article a little confusing, as it appears to contain characters that seem common (e.g. é). I do know that this title contains a character "ā" that I can't seem to find in Unicode charts that I have (XML in as Nutshell chapter on character sets), however, the record seems to behave correctly. I assume that the regular Latin alphabet with the common diacriticals is OK. I've been unsure of "Æ" which one encounters from time to time.
Anyway, I've submitted a change for the title in question. Any guidance that you could give on limiting myself to the correct character set going forward, would be appreciated. Thanks ~Ron --Rtrace 20:38, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


In theory, we support all "Alt-Number" characters (to use Windows terminology) between 192 and 255, i.e.:

  • 0192 À
  • 0193 Á
  • 0194 Â
  • 0195 Ã
  • 0196 Ä
  • 0197 Å
  • 0198 Æ
  • 0199 Ç
  • 0200 È
  • 0201 É
  • 0202 Ê
  • 0203 Ë
  • 0204 Ì
  • 0205 Í
  • 0206 Î
  • 0207 Ï
  • 0208 Ð
  • 0209 Ñ
  • 0210 Ò
  • 0211 Ó
  • 0212 Ô
  • 0213 Õ
  • 0214 Ö
  • 0215 ×
  • 0216 Ø
  • 0217 Ù
  • 0218 Ú
  • 0219 Û
  • 0220 Ü
  • 0221 Ý
  • 0222 Þ
  • 0223 ß
  • 0224 à
  • 0225 á
  • 0226 â
  • 0227 ã
  • 0228 ä
  • 0229 å
  • 0230 æ
  • 0231 ç
  • 0232 è
  • 0233 é
  • 0234 ê
  • 0235 ë
  • 0236 ì
  • 0237 í
  • 0238 î
  • 0239 ï
  • 0240 ð
  • 0241 ñ
  • 0242 ò
  • 0243 ó
  • 0244 ô
  • 0245 õ
  • 0246 ö
  • 0247 ÷
  • 0248 ø
  • 0249 ù
  • 0250 ú
  • 0251 û
  • 0252 ü
  • 0253 ý
  • 0254 þ
  • 0255 ÿ

This means that our software should recognize, say, "é" and display Philip José Farmer's bibliography and any links to it correctly, including letting you search on "jose farmer" without the accent -- which it does. I am not entirely sure what will happen if you try to use something like "÷" or "æ", but we can certainly experiment. Come to think of it, we should probably test it thoroughly and then post a list of "approved characters" under Help.

As far as Latin-2 goes, it supports a number of Polish, Czech and other Central European characters that we can't handle, which is why we have an entry for Stanislaw Lem as opposed to "Stanisław Lem", the way his name is spelled in Polish.

Our original programmer, Al (who is currently on sabbatical), valiantly fought Unicode for months, but we still have many issues in this area, so for now anything outside of the core Latin-1 character set should be used with caution. Attempts to use two byte Unicode characters -- typically when copying and pasting data from other Web sites -- result in broken links and minor thermonuclear explosions :) Ahasuerus 21:32, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't see an "®" in that, and I've just added another The Technicolor® Time Machine pub. Is that causing problems for anyone else? BLongley 21:33, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
I didn't list any characters lower than 195 since they are generally not found in Author names. Titles are somewhat different since most Title links are done using record numbers (and publications usually use Tags), so non-standard characters do not break them. The only issue with titles is searching and although ® happens to work in searches, if you try entering alt-0174 in the search box with Num Lock off, you will notice that alt codes will not work. And that assuming that more than a handful of our users know the code for ® in the first place...
BTW, Ron, we use alt-0163, the "£" character, in the price field even though you can't search on £ in Advanced Search. The ability to search prices is less important than an accurate representation of the UK currency symbol and I hope to fix the Advanced Search logic in the foreseeable future. Ahasuerus 23:09, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Slight confusion again, though I think I understand. For UK prices, I was finding any record for a UK book and grabbing the "£" character from that record via the clipboard. I didn't know that non-keyboard characters could be produced using the Alt key and a code. Given you statement, I'm guessing that the character pasted from the clipboard is not producing the desired character by the time they get to the server, i.e. it is getting clobbered by either Windows or Firefox (in my case). Whereas, using the Alt-Number technique produces the correct character. Please let me know if I've got it right. For me cutting and pasting is easier, but I certainly don't want to introduce bunk data. Thanks. ~Ron --Rtrace 23:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
The problem with copying and pasting non-ASCII characters is that you never know what encoding system the original Web site may be using. For example, OCLC often uses two byte Unicode to represented accented characters. They look just like the characters that you can generate with the alt codes, but if you paste them into ISFDB, they will break searches and links. Having said that, I have never seen "£" cause this problem and I don't see any Unicode prices (aside from a couple dozen Polish pubs) in the database, so "£" is presumably OK to copy-and-paste. Ahasuerus 00:02, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Instances of Nocturne

While wandering, I noticed in your verified Selected Poems (that's quite the contents list!) of 1971 and Grotesques and Fantastiques of 1973, are "Nocturne" -- 974739 (1971) and 988478 (1973), respectively. Are these the same poem? (I did not examine the other titles for any further possible duplications.) --MartyD 16:31, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

That one is identical, and I've submitted a merge. I had trusted the statement in Chalker and Owings that none of the poems in Grotesques and Fantastiques had been previously published. I guess they missed that one. I searched for the others and couldn't find them in the other collection (or in the list of possible duplicates. Thanks for the catch. ~Ron --Rtrace 02:28, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

The Survivors

I added this cover scan to this verified pub to replace a broken Amazon link. Thanks, Willem H. 19:25, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Blind Worm/Seed of the Dreamers

Added artist notes to [this] Both covers are signed. ~Bill, --Bluesman 02:22, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Mirror of Her Dreams

I added this cover scan to this verified pub to replace this Amazon link. Thanks, Willem H. 12:29, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Domnei / The Music from Behind the Moon: Two Comedies of Woman-Worship

In light of the conversation concerning subtitles, I wanted to make sure that the title you have given this pub is how it is stated on the book's title page. If so, you might want to note that the cover title is different from that of the title page. Thanks. MHHutchins 05:28, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

That's how it appears on the title page, although I'm using the slash to indicate "Domnei" over "The Music from Behind the Moon" (See this discussion). The other similar collection uses a colon on the title page between the two titles which is why I did the title record differently (and will use for the pubs with their subtitle). I'll add the note as suggest. ~Ron --Rtrace 05:39, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Who's Afraid of Beowulf?

I added an OCLC number to your verifed pub of Who's Afraid of Beowulf?. -DES Talk 17:49, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Best Sf of '72

Added a printing statement to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 02:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Adolfo vs Adolpho

Can you check how they spell Gustavo Adolfo Becquer's name here If it is "Adolpho",équer should become a pseudonym ofécquer and the poem should be made a variant. Thanks Jonschaper 04:20, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

It is "Adolpho" and I've submitted the variant edit. ~Ron --Rtrace 04:33, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

CAS's "The Second Interment" or "...Internment"

Can you verify that the story by Clark Ashton Smith in this collection is spelled "The Second Internment"? All other records show "The Second Interment". The OCLC record for the collection also gives it as "...Interment". Thanks. MHHutchins 19:17, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm in a sf convention in Minneapolis for the weekend, but I'll happily check when I return on Monday night. ~Ron --Rtrace 21:21, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Of course it is "Interment" in both instance. I've submitted the merge. ~Ron --Rtrace 03:43, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

CAS's "Sadastor"

You have a piece of this title verified as a poem in this collection. There's also a record of the same title as a story verified in this collection. When you get back home, can you check to see if these are the same works, and if they should be merged? I know it's hard to determine if these "prose poems" would be considered story or poem. Thanks. MHHutchins 23:14, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

They are identical and I've merged them as a poem. I went with poems for everything in the prose poems collection. I noticed the note when I did the merge that Eldritch Dark considers it a story. I also checked the online Contento and he lists it as a "Vignette". Let me know if you think we should go some other way on prose poems in general or this one in specific. ~Ron --Rtrace 03:43, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
The ISFDB has no such animal as a prose poem type, so we have to deal with it the best we can. I think too often we want to place them into the shortfiction type because they tell a story. But most of the time you can look at them without even reading them to see that they're poems. Without the book in front of me, I couldn't make such a call. I'll accept your criterion (it's in a book of poems) and wait until the next editor wants to change it back. :) I think this arose because of the existence of another record for the same piece as shortfiction. Thanks. MHHutchins 17:35, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

"The True Lover" by Houseman or Housman in Dark of the Moon?

In your verified Dark of the Moon: Poems of Fantasy and the Macabre, is The True Lover credited to A. E. Houseman, or does the last name by any chance not have that "e" in it? A. E. Housman has an 1896 poem of the same title. This is also the only title we have for Houseman (Housman has 5), lending to the suspicion. Thanks. --MartyD 10:40, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for catching it. I've submitted a merge of the titles. ~Ron --Rtrace 03:43, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

The Garments of Caean - add notation/interior art crediting

Morning! This. [6]. I added notation and frontispiece illustration crediting after matching my copy to your ver. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 14:14, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Song of Susannah / The Dark Tower

I expanded the notes and added King's essay to Song of Susannah to match my copy. Also expanded the notes and added Robert Browning's poem and King's essay to The Dark Tower. Thanks, Willem H. 14:38, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

We the Venusians/The Water of Thought

Broken link for the image of [this] pub. Replaced with individual ones (could not find a twinned one). The ACE Image Library credits the Venusians cover to Gaughan. Your option to add that to the notes or the artist field. Cheers! ~Bill, --Bluesman 19:04, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Green Queen/3 Thousand Years

Added notes and a cover artist to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 20:49, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

The Enchanter Completed

Added Canadian price to The Enchanter Completed and corrected "Father Figures" (the ToC is inaccurate). BLongley 12:21, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Night's Yawning Peal

I added an OCLC number and a note to Night's Yawning Peal. Please check your copy for the author of "Mr. George", and confirm with User:ChanurBe. -DES Talk 18:48, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that. I've submitted the first part of changing it. I'm fairly certain that the other copies should be "Stephen" and I'll leave a note on Cayer1886's talk page to go ahead fix the title if his agrees. Thanks again. ~Ron --Rtrace 00:25, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Herschfeld vs Hirschfeld

Hi, can you doublecheck the spelling of the name here Thanks Jonschaper 04:15, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for catching it. I've submitted a merge with the other corrected titles. ~Ron --Rtrace 04:15, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Change to verified pub New Worlds of Fantasy

This pub. Stanley Toothbrush is credited directly to Terry Carr and not his pseudonym.--swfritter 14:24, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Change to your verified pub New Worlds of Fantasy #3

This pub. The Stainless Steel Leech is credited directly to Zelazny rather than his Harrison Denmark pseudonym.--swfritter 14:31, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Change to verifed pub Selected Stories from Science-Fiction Adventure in Mutation

this pub. The Patient is credited as E. M. Hull rather than E. Mayne Hull.--swfritter 15:24, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Earth's Last Citadel

In this verified pub I replaced this cover scan with this one. Thanks, Willem H. 08:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Whispers #11-12

Can you check to see if there's an indication that "Strange Eons" in this issue is an excerpt from the novel of the same name? Thanks. MHHutchins 18:27, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I checked this review and was about to post that the novel was an expansion of the story, when I decided to skim Schiff's editiorial where he does indeed indicate that it is an excerpt. There was nothing on the title page or table of contents to indicate this. I'll submit a change to make it an excerpt. Thanks for catching it. ~Ron --Rtrace 22:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Red Tide

I added this cover scan to this verified pub to replace this Amazon link. Thanks, Willem H. 19:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

The Space Merchants

I am trying to find out if I own the same printing of this pub that you verified. I'm almost sure it is not the same, but to be sure, could you please doublecheck the following:

  • How does the numberline on the copyright page look like? Mine is "3 5 7 9 10 8 6 4 2" which indicates that I have the second printing.
  • What is the publication date? The copyright page in my copy says "This edition published in Great Britain in 2003", which is different from the pub you verified because that pub has an exact date (2003-07-10)
  • What does the ISBN-13 say, a) on the copyright page, and b) on the back cover? In my copy the numbers are slightly different: The copyright page has "978 0 575 07528 7" whereas the back cover says "978-0-575-07528-3" (notice the last digit is different)
  • Does your copy have the exact same cover illustration as the verified pub's cover image? My copy's illustration has a praise printed below the large "Pohl & Kornbluth" author box; the praise is by Kingsley Amis and says "Has many claims to being the best science fiction novel so far"

If we have indeed different copies I am going to create a new pub. Thanks. Herzbube 11:59, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

My copy has all the points you mention. I suspect that I missed them when verifying the record. The publication date looks like it comes from Amazon, and Locus also indicates July. I'm certain that the ISBN on the copyright page is invalid. That last digit is a check digit and the 10 and 13 digit ISBNs should never have identical final digits for the same book. Regardless, that should be in the notes. My cover also has a yellow circle to the right of "SF MASTERWORKS" as opposed to the red one in the cover scan. I'm thinking that you should go ahead create a new record for the second printing (which we both have) which notes the differences that you mention. We can then let the existing record stand for the first printing. I'll remove my verification from the existing record and move it to a 2nd primary on the record you create. Let me know if you agree, and thanks for catching this. ~Ron --Rtrace 12:28, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Ack! I must be red yellow color blind :-). Anyway, the new pub is here and eagerly awaits your verification. Thanks. Herzbube 01:41, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Off topic question: I notice that you and other editors have customized your signature (the thingy that is inserted when you type ~~~~). Can you give me a hint how to do this? Thanks. Herzbube 01:41, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
I've uploaded a cover scan and done the verification. Thanks again.
I use the regular signature. I just manually type a tilde and my name before it (provided I remember to). I've seen others both here and in Wikipedia who do quite unusual things with their signatures, but I always assumed that they worked it out by hand and pasted a copy at the end of their posts. If there is an automated method, I'm not aware of it. ~Ron --Rtrace 02:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
In the wiki preferences you can specify a custom signature. -DES Talk 03:31, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Aaah! Nickname + raw signatures does the trick. Cool, thanks! (Sorry, Ron, for writing this on your talk page, I'm stopping now). Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 04:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
No worries for conversing here. I'm learning new stuff too. Though it took me several tries before I realized that the talk page won't link from itself. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 04:38, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

The Dragon Masters -- Chapterbook

I would like to convert your verified pub from a NOVEL type to a CHAPTERBOOK type. A novel with a work of short fiction as sole content is not cloneable and in general does not work well. -DES Talk 14:19, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Feel free. It was probably a novel when I got to the record. Thanks. ~Ron --Rtrace 14:49, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Delirium's Mistress

I added the interior art and a note to this verified pub to match my copy. Thanks, Willem H. 14:32, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Wall of Serpents

I added this cover scan to this verified pub to replace this Amazon link. Thanks, Willem H. 15:37, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

"The Owls" in Dark of the Moon and Selected Poems

Apologies in advance if this is a waste of time. The Owls in your verified Dark of the Moon: Poems of Fantasy and the Macabre has Timeus Gaylord as author. It's dated 1941, and it's right at the end of a block of poems credited to Clark Ashton Smith. We also have The Owls by Charles P. Baudelaire from (unverified) Weird Tales, November 1941 and a later The Owls by Baudelaire and Smith in your verified Selected Poems. So I'm suspecting that these are at least related, or the Gaylord credit may even be a mistake. What do you think? --MartyD 12:42, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Some searching also turned up this claim that Timeus Gaylord is a Clark pseudonym, Timeus his father's first name, Gaylord his mother's maiden name. --MartyD 12:48, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm fairly certain that all three of these are the same poem and I suspect it first appeared in the November 1941 edition of Weird Tales. I have Sheldon Jaffery and Fred Cook's The Collector's Index to Weird Tales which credits the poem to "Charles P. Baudelaire (translated by Timeus Gaylord". Dark of the Moon credits the poem only to Timeus Gaylord and the copyright page lists it as 1941 from Weird Tales. Selected Poems list the poem in a section "Translations and Paraphrases" and a sub-section "From Charles P. Baudelaire". I have verified that the poems in the two books I have are identical. I can also verify that Jaffery's The Arkham House Companion lists Gaylord as a pseudonym of Smith in the index.
I checked one last source, Donald Sydney-Fryer's Emperor of Dreams: A Clark Ashton Smith Bibliography and it lists the three appearances above in the section "Translations of Poems" It also gives two appearances that pre-date Weird Tales: October 1, 1925 as "Les Hiboux" in The Auburn Journal and May 1927 in The Step Ladder, again as "Les Hiboux". It also verifies the Gaylord pseudonym.
I think by the rules, we're only supposed to list this as a poem by Baudelaire. That would require us to make Gaylord not only a Smith pseudonym, but Baudelaire as well (because of the Dark of the Moon listing). I'm also starting to think that the entire Translations and Paraphrases section of Selected Poems ought to by listed by their original author. Do you have any thoughts on how these should end up looking?
Now, since I have the book out... --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 03:39, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Good thing it was so easy. :-) I have found several other cases where the translator is credited as a co-author, where I also don't have enough information to know how it's actually credited in the pub(s). In those cases, I've made a record for the original, untranslated title as the parent (which someone must have told me is the way to do it) with just the original author and the original pub date (and a note explaining that date), and I've been making the dual-credited titles variants with the date of their first publication and a note explaining that the secondary author is the translator. I think I'd mostly go that route here, although if Selected Poems clearly calls them out as translations and only directly credits the original author, I agree those should be credited to just the original author (under the current rules).
As for Dark of the Moon, making Gaylord a pseudoynm of Baudelaire can't be right -- it's got to be a pseudoynm of Smith. So I guess the best way is just to make it a variant of "Les Hiboux", credited solely to Timeus Gaylord (since that's how the credit reads) with a note explaining the translation relationship, and no pseudoynm. Too bad we can't have variants of variants, or you could make the Gaylord-only one a variant of a Baudelair + Smith one.... Maybe this mess is a good question for Rules and Standards? --MartyD 11:35, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
I'll let you approach this one however you want. Feel free to take this to Rules and Standards. However, the problem gets thornier. Two of the authors that Smith is translating from in Selected Poems, Christophe des Laurieres and Clérigo Herrero, are actually further pseudonyms of Smith! --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 04:37, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

"Moonlight" in The Arkham Collector and Selected Poems

And while you have that Selected Poems out.... Moonlight from your verified The Arkham Collector, Summer 1970 is credited to just Smith, while Selected Poems' Moonlight is credited to both Smith and Paul Verlaine. Are they the same with different credits, or did Verlaine do something to the original? --MartyD 12:57, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

They are two different poems. Sydney-Fryer lists the Verlaine version in the "Translations of Poems" section and also give this Weird Tales appearance as translated by Timius Gaylord (verified w/Jaffrey and Cook). I'll put a note on the two versions so that they're not confused while we figure out how to handle these translations.--Ron ~ RtraceTalk 03:49, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Ed Bryant or Edward Bryant?

In New Dimensions I. He is credited as Ed Bryant in the pb edition.--swfritter 15:01, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

He's Ed in the hardcover as well. I've begun the edits to fix it. Thanks for catching it. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 02:32, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

"Nyarlathotep" in The Arkham Collector

And one more while you have The Arkham Collector, Summer 1970 out.... The poem Nyarlathotep, is it dated 1920? In the other two pubs, verified by an inactive editor who seems to have missed some details when verifying other things, I find Locus cites the first publication as the January 1931 issue of Weird Tales. That one, apparently, is a true poem. Lovecraft used the same title on a prose poem / shortstory first published in November, 1920. See the Lovecraft site and this text from the 1920 prose poem.

If you can verify that the one in your pub does not match that 1920 prose poem, I think we should merge 108379 and 108686 and keep the 1931 date. Thanks. --MartyD 17:41, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Ha! Thought you'd trick me. It's is actually The Arkham Collector, Winter 1970 . But I don't mind pulling that issue out as well. The story/poem in The Arkham Collector matches this text. I have the true poem from Fungi from Yuggoth and it's quite short (half a page even in a mass market paperback). Of the publications currently listed under 108379. I think that the following are the prose poem:
Beyond the Wall of Sleep Contento lists it as a prose poem and it is too long.
The Arkham Collector, Winter 1970 verified by my copy.
Crawling Chaos based on length
Nyarlathotep Cycle based on length
Crawling Chaos reprint, see above.
And this one is the true poem:
Holding Your Eight Hands Contento lists it as a poem with the 1931 date.
That leaves one which I can't precisely determine: Magazine of Horror, November 1968. However, I'd lean towards the prose poem from 1920 based on the other Lovecraft titles that surround it which frequently appear together (see this). It is really just a guess though.
Let me check... Yes, it's a prose poem. The four of them are published on pp. 41-48 as "Four Prose-Poems". Ahasuerus 05:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
I'll go ahead and move Holding Your Eight Hands to the true poem. We can then merge the other titles if you concur. However, we'll have to decide if it is a poem, or short fiction. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 04:43, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
It was a clever ploy to see if you were actually looking things up! Sorry about that; I'm leaving evidence of poor reading comprehension and lack of attention to detail everywhere I go these days....
Yes, from what you say, it looks like 69021 (NOT 108686) and 108379 should be merged, and we should add some title notes. I'd go with POEM -- it's not really short fiction, IMO -- but I am subject to many misguided opinions. Thanks for spending all of that time looking these things up. --MartyD 11:50, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree about going with POEM for prose poems and I have entered the Clark Ashton Smith prose poems as poems. I've just added notes to both the poem title records and will merge the two titles when those edits clear. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 04:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
In looking over all of this and trying to verify against Locus, I think the one in Nyarlathotep Cycle should be the 1931 true poem, not the 1920 prose poem. It is on a single page, and Locus cites it as 1931 Weird Tales. Why did you think it is the other? --MartyD 11:40, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
It appears to have both. The prose poem on page 11, the other poem poem on page 17. Locus lists the smaller poem as part of "Three Poems".--Ron ~ RtraceTalk 13:33, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Gotcha, but I think we have the titles backwards in its contents. p. 11 is currently 1931 (the poetic poem (how's that?)) but should be the 1920 prose poem, and vice-versa. If you agree with that assessment, I'll go switch the page numbers. --MartyD 15:44, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
I don't know how they got reversed. I assume that I merged them incorrectly. Go ahead and reverse the page numbers.
My merge of the short story with the prose poem is being held by Ahasuerus and I assume he'll chime in here if he has questions or disagrees with prose poem as poem. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 23:46, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I swapped the page numbers (or submitted said swapping, anyway). I double-checked all of the others, and I think everything looks right. Beyond the Wall of Sleep also has both titles in it, and the partial-page one is the 1931 poetic poem, while the 2-page one is the prose poem. Thanks again for the help and research. --MartyD 00:37, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) Sorry, folks, I kept it on hold for a bit while juggling a few other things. The merge has been approved and everything looks fine, but I have a question/concern.

"Nyarlathotep-1920" is a short story that can certainly be (and often is) called a "prose poem", so under normal circumstances POEM may be a better choice than SHORTFICTION. However, we already have a regular poem with the same title on file, so entering the Title as SHORTFICTION would help with disambiguation, especially given the fact that the two often appear in the same pub. Would you say that it's a good enough reason to change the type to SHORTFICTION? Ahasuerus 00:54, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

No need to apologize for the hold. I only noted it so MartyD would know where the merge I had promissed to do was at.
There is a lot of evidence that the 1920 title is a prose poem. Aside from the title you mentioned above, both Contento and Locus list it as either a prose poem or a poem. I lean towards listing prose poems as poems here since the SHORTFICTION types seem to me a a worse fit than poem.
Both the 1920 and 1931 titles existing in the same collection actually make it less likely that the two titles will be merged since that throws an additional warning. I guess the only worry is that someone will try to remove one or the other of the titles from one of the collections that house both. Of course, seeing a poem and a shortfiction with the same title may also lead someone to think there is a mistake. I still lean towards keeping them both poems, but will go with SHORTFICTION if you feel strongly or others agree it should be changed. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 02:02, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
You may well be right about the likelihood of various scenarios, so might as well leave it as is. Thinking ahead, we are very likely to implement "title sub-types" similar to the "storylen" field for SHORTFICTION and one of them will be "prose poem" under POEM. We will then have to go back and find all prose poems on file, probably by checking every Title's Notes and Synopsis fields. Ahasuerus 04:06, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I understand the benefit, but I think Ron is right -- it will be hard for someone to do the wrong thing with these two titles as they stand. More likely, someone down the road will make another SHORTFICTION that will have to be merged, and it may be hard to notice. That doesn't seem so bad. The clincher for me is its classification as a poem by some of our key bibliographic resources. And if you read it, you'll see it's not a short story. --MartyD 11:00, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
Oh sure, I am not disagreeing, just trying to think ahead and come up with the best way to find prose poems once we have support for sub-types :) Ahasuerus 17:32, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

New Dimensions 2

Added edition statement, per Currey, to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 18:35, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Added gutter code

I added a gutter code to your verified [7].Don Erikson 17:53, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I have approved the change and the Notes field currently reads "Info from Locus #190 (June 30, 1976) and OCLC 1733365, verified with book "First Edition" so stated. Gutter code "Q49" on page 218". Could you please clarify what information is not stated in the book and comes from secondary sources? Is it the month of publication, perhaps? TIA! Ahasuerus 18:45, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I've adjusted the notes. It is really only the publication date that is only in the secondary sources.--Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:52, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! Ahasuerus 22:00, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Beyond the Gates of Dream

Scanned in a new image and added notes to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 18:31, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Message from Eocene/Three worlds of Futurity

Expanded the notes for [this] Wonder why a collection of five stories is titled "Three Worlds ...."?? ~Bill, --Bluesman 00:14, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Childhood's End

You have submitted a new pub, tenth printing, but there is already a record [here] for a tenth printing with a different month. If you are sure about the month for yours would you rather over write the existing one? It's not verified as yet. ~Bill, --Bluesman 04:40, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

I was cloning (I believe the existing tenth printing) to make a record for the ninth printing with the 1/69 date. If the note on my submission says tenth, I must have missed it when editing to make the clone. If you want to go ahead and approve it, I'll fix the note in a subsequent edit, unless you'd rather I'd start over. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 05:47, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Approved! Fix away! Thanks. ~Bill, --Bluesman 15:45, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Lovecraft's Collected Poems / Fungi from Yuggoth

I was entering the pagenumbers for Fungi from Yuggoth & Other Poems and noticed that the title of two poems were spelled different from the entry in the database. Since my pub was probably cloned from your Collected Poems, can you check your copy for New England Fallen and On a New England Village Seen by Moonlight. In my edition New England is spelled as New-England for both titles. If yours is the same, I can adapt the title records, if not I'll enter mine as variants. Thanks, Willem H. 20:37, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Both poems have the hyphen in the title in Collected Poems. They also include the hyphen in The Ancient Track. However, Beyond the Wall of Sleep may be the problem. I've checked three secondary sources, Joshi's Sixty Years of Arkham House, Jaffery's The Arkham House Companion , and Contento and they all list the titles without hyphen in BTWOS. Alas, I only have secondary sources for that one. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 01:57, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
Tuck also lists them without the hyphen, even in Collected Poems. Beyond the Wall of Sleep has no primary verification, so I think it's best to add the hyphen to the stories, and add a note to the titles about secondare sources being (probably) wrong. What do you say? Willem H. 20:19, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
I've checked a few more secondary sources ([8] and [9]) and I rechecked Joshi and Jaffery and all of them omit the hyphen in BTWOS but include it in Collected Poems. Contento and Chalker Owings omit the hyphen for both titles as Tuck does. I discount Chalker Owings as it is riddled with errors, whereas I usually think of Joshi as extremely reliable. I still think we have variants here. I'm suspicious that four sources would all incorrectly omit the hyphen for one book while all getting it correct for the other. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 04:18, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I agree. This makes the edit a bit harder though. It means i.m.o. that the first publication (in Beyond the Wall of Sleep) is the canonical title and all others are variants. I added the titles with the hyphen to my pub, and removed the old ones. Shall I do the same for yours, or would you rather do it yourself? When all is ready I'll merge the new titles and make them a variant of the original. Thanks for the research. Willem H. 20:33, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I'll go ahead and submit the edits for mine and merge them with yours when they get approved. Thanks for catching this.--Ron ~ RtraceTalk 01:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Map of Compact Space

I would like to merge several title records which I believe refer to the same piece of interior art, entitled "Map of Compact Space", that is included in some of C. J. Cherryh's Chanur novels. You are one of the verifiers whose pub records (this) would be affected by the change. Before making the merge I need to make sure that all titles refer to the same piece of art. A scan of the map can be found here (link points to my personal website; once the issue has been resolved I will remove the scan so that no copyright is violated). Unless you think my proposal is a bad idea in the first place, could you please verify whether the scan matches the map you have in your publication? You may wish to read the help desk discussion leading up to this request. Thanks for your time, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 22:48, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

The scan matches the map in my publication exactly. Merge away! --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 01:39, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Second Stage Lensman

Added a couple of notes to [this] from Currey. ~Bill, --Bluesman 04:05, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Nebula Award Stories 10

This pub of "Nebula Award Stories 10" that you verified contains the title Award Winning Science Fiction, 1965-1974. I have another pub which contains a similar title, The Nebula Winners, 1965-1974. I have a feeling that the two titles are actually the same, which would allow to make the "Nebula Winners" a variant title of the "Award Winning SF". Do you think this makes sense? If so, could you please verify whether the essay in your copy of the book matches the following information (from my book):

  • The essay starts with a paragraph of 8 sentences that describes how the winners of the Nebula award are determined.
  • The first two sentences of the essay are: "The method of choosing the winners of the Nebula Awards is of the utmost simplicity. During the course of the year the active members of Science Fictions Writers of America nominate stories and novels as they appear in print."
  • The last two sentences of the essay are: "The stories in this volume, number ten of the series, were published in 1974. There also is a Dramatic Presentation Award and, new this year, a Grand Master award."
  • The essay then lists the award winners in each category for the years 1965 - 1974 (inclusive)
  • The essay ends with the words "THE END"

If this information matches, I would say the two titles can be considered to be the same, and I would then make a variant title. What are your thoughts? Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 11:12, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

The essay is the same, though mine doesn't include the words "THE END" and the title on mine is from the table of contents which lists a section of the book as "Award Winning Science Fiction 1965-1974" with two content items underneath: "The Nebula Winners" and "The Hugo Winners". The title page for the first essay lists the title as "The Nebula Winners 1965-1974" (which matches the essay you describe) and the second essay as simply "The Hugo Winners". I'm going to add the second essay. Since neither of the other pubs that include the Award Winning Science Fiction, 1965-1974 title are verified, I would suggest that you merge that title with yours taking your title name. I would assume that they all got it from table of contents. Thanks for catching it. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 03:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I like your merging solution even better than the variant title. The merge is now done. Thanks for the research, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 12:44, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Stephen Leigh story in Science Fiction: The Best of the Year, 2006 Edition

This pub. You (as by Anonymous) or "You" (as by Anonymous) as it is in the ebook pub?--swfritter 14:55, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

I missed that one. The title page reads "You" by Anonymous over Leigh's name. It appears identically in the table of contents. I would lean towards including "by Anonymous" as part of the title. Does the ebook include the parentheses and the "as"? --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 01:37, 13 November 2009 (UTC)
Copy and paste from the PDF version - “YOU” BY ANONYMOUS. Case change obviously needed - the TOC lists the story as “You” by Anonymous. The acknowledgments list the story as You, by Anonymous. I think we can change at the title level of the story since the unverified pub seems to be identical - in fact the PDF appears to be a mirror image of the first printing. The Amazon listing actually gives a release month of June. The PDF actually lists the First Printing date as September 2006 although I have gone with the Fictionwise release date. --swfritter 16:02, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

The Path of Unreason

Should the artist's name in [this] record be Poel instead of the current Pool? Thanks! ~Bill, --Bluesman 17:37, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Checked and corrected. Thanks for catching it. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:18, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Pattern for Conquest

Added an edition statement and note from Currey to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 17:46, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to question this one. Shouldn't the reprint result in a second publication record with its own date and binding? --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:18, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
I quite agree, but I can't (other than the Currey note) find any data to create more than a stub entry. He doesn't like to give out a whole lot of information about much past a first edition. OCLC has nothing; AbeBooks has nothing; Amazon has nothing. Though 'stubs' sort of serve a purpose I dislike creating what amounts to an 'empty' record. There were a lot of these Armed Services pubs in that era, unfortunately some don't exist other than as notes on the back of the trades!! (cheaper than actually printing them and still look patriotic at the same time!!!) Though that is not likely in this case.... ~Bill, --Bluesman 04:59, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
I found some more sources that I think give us enough information for something more than a stub and I have submitted it as a separate edition. The Chalker Owings note would definitely indicate that this was cheaper than a new printing, since they already had the sheets. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Just approved it! Good sleuthing. ~Bill, --Bluesman 19:08, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Replacing Amazon links

I added some coverscans to your verified pubs to replace Amazon links.

In The Losers I replaced this cover scan with this one.
In The Invincible I replaced this cover scan with this one.
In The Fires of Heaven I replaced this cover scan with this one.
In Swords of Shahrazar I replaced this cover scan with this one.
In The Tsaddik of the Seven Wonders I replaced this cover scan with this one.
In To Your Scattered Bodies Go I replaced this cover scan with this one. Thanks, Willem H. 20:19, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Allan Servoss

Hi, could you please check the spelling for "Alan Servoss" here and "Alan Servos" here? I suspect these should be made pseudonyms or corrected to match "Allan Servoss" or " Allan C. Servoss". Going by current listings, I suspect "Allan Servoss" should be the parent, also as per this website. Cheers Jonschaper 04:45, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Double checked and corrections submitted. I think you've only got one variant of the name. I agree with you on which should be parent. Aside from the web site, the Whispers pre-date the Malzberg cover.--Ron ~ RtraceTalk 05:05, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Lives and Times of Jerry Cornelius

The submission doesn't make it clear ( from the Moderator's side, not yours) are you adding contents to [this] or did you clone a pub with contents and then change the metadata (field content)? If the second then you should just add the contents to the existing record. Thanks! ~Bill, --Bluesman 04:51, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Importing contents from an already existing pub. For some reason it always appears as if it is a new pub. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 04:56, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! Still finding my wings as a MOD, so must ask the seemingly easy questions! ~Bill, --Bluesman 05:00, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Panos Koutroubous(s)is

Could you check this pub again? I think the notes need some change, as does the coverartist and pagenumers for "Final War and Other Fantasies". According to the notes the coverart credits are from the ACE image Library. In my copy the credits are on the copyright pages, where Panos Koutroubousis is spelled as Panos Koutrouboussis. Pagenumbers for the collection are wrong too, as is the note about that. Let me know if you want me to make the necessary changes. Thanks, Willem H. 07:25, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for finding that. I've made the edits. The frontispiece was also listed under the wrong half of the double. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:06, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. It looks so much better now. Willem H. 16:44, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Lady of the Bees

Added a printing statement to [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 18:17, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Waste Lands

I posted on MartyD's page about the Stephen King "Waste Lands", too. Will let you two figure it out! Thanks! ~Bill, --Bluesman 18:46, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I think you intended the first half of this note for someone else. I didn't submit this.--Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Yep, was bouncing back and forth between you and Don Erikson for awhile. ~Bill, --Bluesman 04:26, 22 November 2009 (UTC)


It's been a long time since I noticed any problems with your submissions aside from the inevitable typos that we all make from time to time. The feedback on your Talk page also indicates that you are ready for at least self-approval. Would you be willing to take the next step? No pressure, of course, but think of the perks! :) Ahasuerus 06:45, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

As long as I can still ask questions, I'd be up for it. RtraceTalk 06:53, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Always! :) Ahasuerus 18:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Please do keep asking questions, I'm always a little worried when people stop asking but continue editing. BLongley 22:12, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
It would certainly make multi-step edits easier. I would hope that I would chip in more than just approving my own edits, though. Thanks for your confidence. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:53, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Great! The deed is done :) Ahasuerus 18:52, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
And I'm supporting it. BLongley 22:12, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
Congratulations, you are now a moderator! :) Ahasuerus 01:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks again for your confidence. I'll try to do a good job. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 01:48, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Spawn of Cthulhu

Approved [this]. MUCH better image! Question on the notes: before edit the printing statement had "First Printing: October 1971" on copyright page. - Currey. I understand the removal of the last part and the Currey now that the pub is/will be verified, but why truncate to "Stated first printing" and actually lose data (ie: the publication/printing date)? ~Bill, --Bluesman 17:13, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm fine if you want me to put it back in. I removed printing date because it is reflected in the date field. Though, I probably didn't give it much thought and just typed "Stated first printing" which is my usual phrasing. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:19, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
The date field doesn't always reflect what's in the book, as we all know from trying to date old HCs from Amazon! lol!! And once you are a MOD (no doubt on the outcome) you can put it back in or not and approve your own submission!! Congrats! ~Bill, --Bluesman 19:15, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Mechanical Monarch/Twice Upon a Time

Added some notes to [this]. Pretty generic. Assume if there was interior art you would have noted it. EMSH is probably somewhere on the one cover, but the ACE Image Library doesn't specify. Cheers! ~Bill, --Bluesman 19:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Weird Tales Winter

Approved [this] and harkened back to my first magazine entries with lots of interior art. Destinies!! Mike Hutchins helped me with the format and told me to enter the multiples using square brackets [#]. I don't recall if this was a necessary thing or just a preferred method. This is the first record I've seen that has parentheses (that doesn't mean much as I have little experience entering magazines). I'm not even sure if there is a Help Page for this (probably). Think I'll go digging! Looks like your nomination will be a resounding success! Worked out your acceptance speech yet? Marty's already claimed World Domination, so you'll have to go BIG!! ~Bill, --Bluesman 22:20, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Galaxy? Universe? Multiverse? I'll just humbly thank everyone for their confidence and promise to try not to screw things up.
I don't have a problem changing them to square brackets. I'm likely to be back in that pub anyway (I'm in the middle of composing a Rules and Standards question). I'll make sure I change the parentheses to brackets when I'm in there. However, I'm close to leaving town for the next few days. I was just trying to get a few more edits in before then. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:31, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Poked around and couldn't find anything at all. Will ask Mike when he gets back as well. Have a good Thanksgiving, and we'll try to keep a portion of the Universe open for your reign!!! ~Bill, --Bluesman 22:45, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
That's right, numbers in square brackets are used to disambiguate multiple interior illustrations. Help:Screen:NewPub points to this issue of Analog which has a couple of useful examples. Ahasuerus 23:18, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

The Best From Fantasy and Science Fiction Third Series G-712

Morning! This. [10]. I found that page 50 on my copy has William Lindsay Gresham. How say thee? Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 15:38, 27 November 2009 (UTC) Also this, "EMSH" in medalion/dial on alien, near bottom edge of cover from the 1960 version with same art. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 15:43, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for catching those. I've initiated the changes. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:43, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

The World and Thorinn

I have serious doubts about this being a collection. It is presented as a novel ("His first novel in ten years" on the front cover), and the stories are altered ("Portions of this book appeared in a different form in Galaxy" on the copyright page). I.m.o. this is a classic example of a fix-up novel. If you agree, I can make the changes (convert the title and publications, place the stories in a series). Any other thoughts? Thanks, Willem H. 15:35, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree, even thoughContento lists it as a collection. I'm sure that it was a collection when I got to it (probably because of Contento) and I left it as such. Feel free to convert it to a novel. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:55, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. The first edits are submitted. Clute/Nicholls agree on the fix-up. I added notes about this and Contento. Willem H. 20:48, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I approved the edits and did a few more changes[11], now all the short fiction titles have links to the fixup novel. I also removed the short fiction titles from contents. How does it look?Kraang 00:34, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
It all looks good. Thanks to both. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 00:56, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Looks perfect! It was bedtime for me, nice to have someone to do the work while I was sleeping. Thanks! Willem H. 08:14, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

The Blue World

New image and expanded notes for [this] ~Bill,

Newest MOD

Congrats! Remember to proof-read! ;-) ~Bill, --Bluesman 01:53, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Congratulations! Looking forward to working more with you. Willem H. 08:15, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Again a hardy congratulations! Remember to enjoy yourself. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 12:23, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
A virtual tip of the hat and welcome to the wonderful world of moderating. MHHutchins 18:12, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Welcome aboard! Stock up on the aspirin (or headache cure of your choice) and remember you aren't being thrown in the deep-end, you can still ask for any advice you need. BLongley 00:48, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Hat, nothing! A virtual toss of the underwear!! Gotta get that groupie pump primed.... ;-) --MartyD 03:09, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Is this how Tom Jones started? --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 03:23, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
I think I can safely say that Tom Jones achieved his fame without being an ISFDB moderator. But I can tell you I've had far more attention since I became a mod than I had before - Landlords/Bailiffs/Groupies, they're all the same to me! It beats the daily Death-Threats from Lithuanians I got in my last major online pastime though. BLongley 21:59, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Player Piano

New image and expanded notes for [this] ~Bill, --Bluesman 04:25, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Clock strikes Twelve

Found a really nice image of [this] on Currey's website [here] ~Bill, --Bluesman 17:42, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Steph[e]on Grendon again

I am trying to clean up the submissions that DES had on hold before he went on hiatus. I noticed that in one of the related discussions you mentioned that "Mr. George" in your verified copy of Night's Yawning Peal is attributed to Stephen Grendon, but the publication record still lists Stephon Grendon as the author. Could you please look into it when you get a chance? Thanks! Ahasuerus 23:01, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Since the other parties seem unresponsive, and since there is only the one story, I've merged the titles. I'm not sure what one does with the author merge that is on hold, but it shouldn't be needed any longer. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 02:37, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, zapped! And you can always reject a submission (regardless of its hold status) by using the "hardreject.cgi" script -- see Help:Screen:Moderator for details. Ahasuerus 03:55, 2 December 2009 (UTC)


Afternoon! This. [12]. I added this note to mine plus another I just cloned. "Cover artist not credited in book. Signature not found. ICSHI [13]and Jane Frank's "Science Fiction and Fantasy Artists of the Twentieth Century: A Biographical Dictionary" list Paul Lehr (Berkley/1975) pg 319 upper lt. col." Plus your copy matches this. [14]. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 20:29, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the research. I've merged my verified copy into the other one as to preserve the existing transient verification. I also copied your additional notes, though I left the URL off. Thanks again. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:08, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Looks good to me. Thanks, Harry. --Dragoondelight 11:45, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

"The Man Who Told the Truth" in Flowers From the Moon

I changed "Turth" to "Truth" on 560089 in your 2-verified Flowers From the Moon and Other Lunacies. --MartyD 11:23, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Story lengths

Just approved a minor edit from another editor involving one of the stories from [this] publication. There are seven stories [?] with no length designations other than shortfiction. Are they not stories? ~Bill, --Bluesman 19:43, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm in Chicago this weekend (which has many excellent used book shops!), and away from my library. I'll double check on this one when I get back, Although I'll probably make length decisions based solely on page count, unless Contento is any help on this. My Arkhams where amongst my earliest edits and probably could all use another look. Thanks for pointing it out. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 23:56, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Updated with best guess based on page count. Thanks again. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:55, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

date of "A Question of Identity" in Flowers From the Moon

Would you do me a favor and check if the month of A Question of Identity in Flowers From the Moon and Other Lunacies is really February? Locus has April, and I was going to merge it with the record we have from the April 1939 Strange Stories. Thanks. --MartyD 13:30, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

It should be April. Merge away. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:40, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

The Book of Lost Tales - Part I

I have a few questions regarding this pub that you verified:

  • Do you have a specific reason why the index is not credited to Christopher Tolkien? Especially in light that the appendix and the glossary are also credited to Christopher Tolkien.
I don't recall precisely why I entered it that way. None of the non-fiction parts are specifically credited in the book. I probably extrapolated from the Locus listing for part 2 which credits that preface, appendix and glossary to Christopher, but makes no mention of an index. Unfortunately, Locus only gives contents on original publication and 1983 is outside their range, so there is no listing for part 1. --Ron
I would say that it is reasonable to assume that Christopher is the author of the index, given that there is no other recorded editor of, or contributor to, the book. Without doing a more thorough research than simply reading Christopher's foreword, I also believe that it is very unlikely that J. R. R. Tolkien himself has compiled the index, as the whole book is basically a patchwork of notes compiled by Christopher from "the tattered notebooks in which they were written." Unless you have objections, I will therefore change the author of the title to Christopher Tolkien. Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 16:03, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I have no objections, but you may want to put a note about the assumption that the supplementary material being written by Christopher. None of it is signed, but I agree that he is certainly the author. --Ron
  • Does the appendix appear with a prefix "Appendix" in your pub? If yes it would allow me to merge the variant I created with your title.
It does. I usually don't include Appendix in titles, but I have no objection if you want to merge them. --Ron
OK, going to do that, then. Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 16:03, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I just approved this merge, FYI. --MartyD 11:09, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Are there any illustrations in your copy? There are two in my pub, and I have created this title record for them, maybe you could use this?
There is a frontispiece which is repeated on page 84 and a map on page 81, but I can't find any credit to Tolkien. The frontispiece looks like his work, the map less so. Though I don't claim to be an expert in this. --Ron
Same here. Regarding the map, there is an explanation in the text (probably on p. 86 in your book): "This map, drawn on a manuscript page with the text written round it, [...]". Later on p. 88 (in your book) the repeated frontispiece illustration is also discussed: "There exists a very early and very remarkable drawing, in which the world is seen in section, and is presented as a huge 'Viking' ship [...]". I would say that this is sufficient evidence to credit the illustrations to J. R. R. Tolkien, now the only question that remains is: Are these illustrations worthy of inclusion in ISFDB? Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 16:03, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I would say that they are worthy of includsion. Let me know if you want me to tackle this for my copy. If you want to handle it, the frontispiece is before the paginated section (bp). --Ron
  • Finally, as a side-note, I have (maybe excessively) decided that I would like to use ISFDB's naming convention for subtitles, i.e. use a colon instead of a comma to denote the subtitle ("The Book of Lost Tales: Part I" instead of "The Book of Lost Tales, Part I"). Because of this there are now variant titles for the foreword and index titles. Should you decide to "join the club" :-) let me know, I could then remove the variants.

Thanks, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 17:34, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

I have no objections whatsoever to changing the form of the subtitle. Since we have the only two verified pubs, It would probably be preferable to change them all as well as the title record. Thanks for being so thorough. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 02:15, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Changing all pubs + title sounds good to me, I'm going to do this one of the next days. What do you think about Part 2? No pubs of that are verified, so IMO I should fix those as well. As for being thorough, well, when it comes to Tolkien I am positively excessive, and some nights I am cursing myself for this, but somehow I just can't help it... If I annoy enough moderators, maybe someone will stop me :-) Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 16:03, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree they should be consistent and you're making them conform to style anyway. I don't know that anyone else would disagree, but I'd say go ahead with Part 2 as well. We've all got our areas where we are especially pedantic. I certainly won't be the one to stop you for your Tolkien expertise. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 20:23, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

unindent. OK, I think I'm done now. If you would like to review I can give a couple of explanatory notes. Thank for all, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 13:27, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

"Sea-Kings of Mars" by Leigh Brackett

Please join in this discussion. Thanks. MHHutchins 04:25, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

The Beast With Five Fingers

Sorry - accidentally approved this myself. (That queue isn't getting any shorter is it?) BLongley 22:45, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Earth in Peril/Who Speaks of Conquest

Added both cover artists, with note, to [this] courtesy ACE Image Library. ~Bill, --Bluesman 19:18, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

The Golden Barge: A Fable

I added the introductions to this verified pub to match my copy. Thanks, Willem H. 14:55, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

2nd Avon Fantasy Reader

Found a cleaner image for [this] and added a printing statement. ~Bill, --Bluesman 18:22, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

The Sea-Bell (poem from "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil")

Another Tolkien-related question: This title, which appears in this pub you verified, uses the spelling "The Sea Bell". Yet in this pub which I own the poem is titled "The Sea-Bell" (hyphen). Could you please double-check the spelling in your book? If a hyphen is used in your pub, I suggest changing the title record (since there are no other verified pubs that use the title). If your pub does not use a hyphen I am going to make a variant title. Thanks, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 00:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

You are correct, it should have the hyphen. Unless you want me to do it, I'll let you go ahead and change the title record. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 01:47, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Done. Thanks, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 02:58, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Breakfast in the Ruins

I added the cover artist and some notes to this verified pub to match my copy. Thanks, Willem H. 15:04, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The Black Corridor

I added this cover scan to this verified pub to replace a broken Amazon link. Thanks, Willem H. 20:47, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


Morning! Just entered [this] into the DB and thought you might be interested. Also, the image is from a seller in Chicago, Printer's Row, listed on AbeBooks. Cheers! ~Bill, --Bluesman 17:14, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Turn "The Tolkien Reader" into an omnibus

A discussion on MartyD's talk page resulted into the proposal to turn The Tolkien Reader into an omnibus (it's currently a collection). I'm bringing this to your talk page because you have verified one of the "Reader's" publications. As per MartyD's proposal, after the collection-to-omnibus migration I would then go on to add collections and individual collection content (e.g. the poem titles of "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil") to all of the "Tolkien Reader's" publications. As I see it, this would effectively turn all the publications into clones of your verified pub. Please let me and MartyD know if you have objections to this plan. If you don't mind, writing your comments on MartyD's talk page (link see above) will help keeping the discussion together. Thanks, Patrick -- Herzbube Talk 14:13, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Hemeac or HEMEAC

In your verified pub it is Hemeac but I have it as HEMEAC for the Galaxy appearance because it seems to be an acronym. There are various references in the story, including on the first page, to HEMEAC and it seems to me that all caps is the correct capitalization method.--swfritter 17:00, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

The book lists the title all in caps, as it does for every story. That being said, I agree that it is likely that an acronym is intended. I see you're holding an edit to make a variant. I've no objection if you want to merge instead. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 20:53, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Who Else Could I Count On

You verified Who Fears the Devil? which contains the story Who Else Could I Count On. The other two verified versions of the this collection list the story as Who Else Could I Count On?. Before I created a variant record, I thought I'd double check that the "?" was truly missing from that pub. Would it be possible for you to look? Thanks. --JLaTondre 19:38, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

The title page for the story does not have a "?", which is where it counts. Neither does the table of contents. However, the copyright page includes the "?" where it cites the original appearance. Since mine is the one that is different, I'll go ahead and make the variant. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 04:00, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
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