Feature:90091 Edition label for publications

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Feature:90091 Edition label for publications OPEN It would be useful to be able to label publications as being printings of a particular edition. For example, there are plenty of Puffin printings of Le Guin's "A Wizard of Earthsea". They have different prices, and may have varying cover art, and we certainly should capture them. Displaying every printing, interspersed with all the other printings (US etc.) is going to be quite confusing. What would be better would be some way to group printings as being all printings of a given edition, and then show the edition level data (or maybe just the first printing, and a note saying "and 14 reprints)". Following on from the "Series" approach Al suggested for magazine organization, this is like a "publication series", though the display rules would be different. Mike Christie (talk) 06:58, 31 Dec 2006 (CST)

So it sounds like the title app would still show all of the publications it was published as, it would just give control over the organization of the display. Would this require just one level of organization, or would there be a need for hierarchies, like series for titles? Alvonruff 13:52, 31 Dec 2006 (CST)
I can't think of a reason for multiple levels. Seems like the most you'd want to do is hide reprints, and a single level would suffice for that.
This is a sideways approach to a generalized tree structure for some kinds of display, though; one could have a translated editions node, I suppose, with countries nodes below that, and editions below that, and reprints below that. More generally you could build a biblio that way: Le Guin -> Novels, Collections, . . . -> Editions -> printings and so on. Mike Christie (talk) 14:41, 31 Dec 2006 (CST)
One other situation just came up: I'm entering some first edition data for Le Guin from Currey, and there are two states of the first edition of "The Farthest Shore". He calls them A and B. I could see us wanting to give these the same edition name ("Atheneum 1972", say) and then series number "1A" and "1B". There could also be bindings without known priority, which could make it desirable to have two or more printings with the same series number. Mike Christie (talk) 16:26, 31 Dec 2006 (CST)
Mike – I’m looking at A Wizard of Earthsea and am wondering – could you provide an example of how you would like this page to be formatted? One complication I see is that there are two omnibus titles in there – maybe those should get separated out? Related to this is something bugging me is that since ISFDB is only collecting the “published” date that we will end up with a lot of later printings dated 0000-00-00 which pops these publications to the top of the list as they are sorted by date. Unfortunately, the fix is kind of messy as publishers change names. For example, I recently verified a collection of later printing Zelazny books and something I saw there was Avon became Avonva though the book’s first printing, printing number, etc. all continued to sequence up. Here's a layout where I clustered by publisher name and then by price though still keeping the overall date order so that we know that Parnassus did the book first. Marc Kupper 04:04, 1 Jan 2007 (CST)
  • A Wizard of Earthsea (1968 , Parnassus, $3.90, 205pp)
    • A Wizard of Earthsea (1968 , Parnassus, $3.95, 205pp)
  • A Wizard of Earthsea (1970 , Ace, 90075, $0.75, 205pp, pb) - [VERIFIED]
    • A Wizard of Earthsea (1975 , Puffin, 0 14 03 0477 0, £0.45, 203pp, pb) Cover: David Smee - [VERIFIED]
    • A Wizard of Earthsea (0000 , Puffin, 0-14-030477-0, L1.95, 203pp, pb) Cover: David Smee
    • A Wizard of Earthsea (1992 , Puffin, 0-14-030477-0, L3.50, 203pp, pb) Cover: David Bergen
  • A Wizard of Earthsea (1984 , Bantam, 0-553-23461-7, $2.95, 183pp, pb)
    • A Wizard of Earthsea (0000 , Bantam, 978-3-11-6096-, $1.95, 183pp, pb) - [VERIFIED]
    • A Wizard of Earthsea (1991 , Bantam Spectra, 0-553-26250-5, $4.95, 183pp, pb) Cover: Anne Yvonne Gilbert
    • A Wizard of Earthsea (1991 , Spectra, 5-552-89816-8, $4.95, pb)
    • A Wizard of Earthsea (Sep 2004 , Spectra Books, 0-553-38304-3, $14.00, 192pp, tp)
  • A Wizard of Earthsea (1986 , Lythway Large Print, 0-7451-0337-5, L6.95, 328pp, hc)
  • A Wizard of Earthsea (1989 , Gollancz, 0-575-00717-6, L9.95, 191pp, hc) Cover: David Smee
  • A Wizard of Earthsea (1991 , MacMillan Atheneum, 0-689-31720-4, $15.95, 197pp, hc) Cover: Margaret Chodos-Irvine
  • A Wizard of Earthsea (1991 , Roc UK, 0-14-015776-X, L3.99, 203pp, pb)
Ombinibus publications
  • Earthsea (1977 , Gollancz, hc, omni)
  • The Earthsea Trilogy (1983 , Penguin, 0 14 00 5093 0, £2.95, 478pp, tp, omni) Cover: Jonathan Field - [VERIFIED]
Something like the layout above would be fine. I think the grouping has to be enforced by something like a series name, to address the publisher name changes you mention. For example, there might be a publisher series called "Bantam/Bantam Spectra/Spectra". The rules could be something like this:
  • Each publication series is tied to a particular title -- that is, it will only ever display pubs attached to that title, but that will included vts.
  • The publication series has a date associated with it, which defaults to that of the earliest (non-zero) date in the set of pubs in that series.
  • The biblio would print in pub series date order, with each pub given a pub series number; unnumbered ones come last.
  • Two options -- short and long, or full and abbreviated, or some similar name. For "long", we display the pub series name and date, and then indented below it we display every pub that belongs to that pub series. For "short" I can think the best thing would probably not to print the pub series titles, but instead to make the display look like the displays we have now, but only print pubs which are listed as 1 in some pub series. Mike Christie (talk) 06:22, 1 Jan 2007 (CST)
Would the series name be artificial (series names in the summary bibliography don't necesssarily relect the title names within the series), or would the series name be a publication as show above? For instance, would the following be okay:
 o A Wizard of Earthsea - Parnassus
   o A Wizard of Earthsea (1968 , Parnassus, $3.90, 205pp)
   o A Wizard of Earthsea (1968 , Parnassus, $3.95, 205pp)
 o A Wizard of Earthsea - Puffin
   o A Wizard of Earthsea (0000 , Puffin, 0-14-030477-0, L1.95, 203pp, pb) Cover: David Smee
   o A Wizard of Earthsea (1975 , Puffin, 0 14 03 0477 0, £0.45, 203pp, pb) Cover: David Smee - [VERIFIED]
   o A Wizard of Earthsea (1992 , Puffin, 0-14-030477-0, L3.50, 203pp, pb) Cover: David Bergen
 o A Wizard of Earthsea - Bantam
   o A Wizard of Earthsea (0000 , Bantam, 978-3-11-6096-, $1.95, 183pp, pb) - [VERIFIED]
   o A Wizard of Earthsea (1984 , Bantam, 0-553-23461-7, $2.95, 183pp, pb)
   o A Wizard of Earthsea (1991 , Bantam Spectra, 0-553-26250-5, $4.95, 183pp, pb) Cover: Anne Yvonne Gilbert
   o A Wizard of Earthsea (1991 , Spectra, 5-552-89816-8, $4.95, pb)
   o A Wizard of Earthsea (Sep 2004 , Spectra Books, 0-553-38304-3, $14.00, 192pp, tp) 
 o A Wizard of Earthsea (1970 , Ace, 90075, $0.75, 205pp, pb) - [VERIFIED]
 o A Wizard of Earthsea (1986 , Lythway Large Print, 0-7451-0337-5, L6.95, 328pp, hc)
 o A Wizard of Earthsea (1989 , Gollancz, 0-575-00717-6, L9.95, 191pp, hc) Cover: David Smee
 o A Wizard of Earthsea (1991 , MacMillan Atheneum, 0-689-31720-4, $15.95, 197pp, hc) Cover: Margaret Chodos-Irvine
 o A Wizard of Earthsea (1991 , Roc UK, 0-14-015776-X, L3.99, 203pp, pb)
 Omnibus publications
 o Earthsea (1977 , Gollancz, hc, omni)
 o The Earthsea Trilogy (1983 , Penguin, 0 14 00 5093 0, £2.95, 478pp, tp, omni) Cover: Jonathan Field - [VERIFIED]

Alvonruff 10:16, 1 Jan 2007 (CST)

I think they'd be artificial. I don't think I'd include the title in the series name, though, since you wouldn't want this to be a lexical link. So the first couple above would look like this, I think: 

 o A Wizard of Earthsea (1968)
   o Parnassus
     o A Wizard of Earthsea (1968 , Parnassus, $3.90, 205pp)
     o A Wizard of Earthsea (1968 , Parnassus, $3.95, 205pp)
   o Puffin
     o A Wizard of Earthsea (1975 , Puffin, 0-14-030477-0, £0.45, 203pp, pb) Cover: David Smee - [VERIFIED]
     o A Wizard of Earthsea (0000 , Puffin, 0-14-030477-0, £1.95, 203pp, pb) Cover: David Smee
     o A Wizard of Earthsea (1992 , Puffin, 0-14-030477-0, £3.50, 203pp, pb) Cover: David Bergen

(I regularized the data a little bit.) One thing I did was move the 2nd Puffin to the middle of the list, since the price makes it clear that's where it would go. On reflection I don't think we want to use the ordering number to cause "1st printing" to appear; that should stay in the pub notes.

We could have other attributes for the edition series record, such as date of first printing of that edition, notes on the text, or country. Hence the above could look like this: 

 o A Wizard of Earthsea (1968)
   o Parnassus (1968, US)
     o A Wizard of Earthsea (1968 , Parnassus, $3.90, 205pp)
     o A Wizard of Earthsea (1968 , Parnassus, $3.95, 205pp)

We would also presumably need an "edition series edit" tool.

It strikes me that the ability to create collections of editions and/or publications might be a way to represent things such as the DAW list, or Ballantine, or Ace Doubles, and so on. That would be a hierarchy in some cases -- the DAW list would have as its first member the set of publications of "Spell of the Witch World" which were part of the "DAW" pub series tied to that title. Mike Christie (talk) 11:02, 1 Jan 2007 (CST)

From: Marc Kupper 23:53, 3 Jan 2007 (CST) (testing this style to see if it looks better than indenting)

Al, have you ever tried showing the publication list in a table? The example lists look good because things like the pub dates are all YYYY but they can get pretty ragged when YYYY is mixed with Month YYYY and you have both ISBNs and older book codes.

Title Date Publisher ISBN Price Pgs B Cover Verified
• A Wizard of Earthsea - Parnassus (2 editions)
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1968 Parnassus   $3.90 205pp      
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1968 Parnassus   $3.95 205pp      
• A Wizard of Earthsea - Puffin (3 editions)
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 000000 Puffin 0-14-030477-0 L1.95 203pp pb David Smee  
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1975 Puffin 0 14 03 0477 0 £0.45 203pp pb David Smee VERIFIED
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1992 Puffin 0-14-030477-0 L3.50 203pp pb David Bergen  
• A Wizard of Earthsea - Bantam (5 editions)
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 000000 Bantam 978-3-11-6096- $1.95 183pp pb   VERIFIED
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1984 Bantam 0-553-23461-7 $2.95 183pp pb    
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1991 Bantam Spectra 0-553-26250-5 $4.95 183pp pb Anne Yvonne Gilbert  
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1991 Spectra 5-552-89816-8 $4.95   pb    
  • A Wizard of Earthsea Sep 2004 Spectra Books 0-553-38304-3 $14.00 192pp tp    
• A Wizard of Earthsea - Other publishers
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1970 Ace 90075 $0.75 205pp pb   VERIFIED
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1986 Lythway Large Print 0-7451-0337-5 L6.95 328pp hc    
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1989 Gollancz 0-575-00717-6 L9.95 191pp hc David Smee  
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1991 MacMillan Atheneum 0-689-31720-4 $15.95 197pp hc Margaret Chodos-Irvine  
  • A Wizard of Earthsea 1991 Roc UK 0-14-015776-X L3.99 203pp pb    
Omnibus publications
  • Earthsea 1977 Gollancz       hc    
  • The Earthsea Trilogy 1983 Penguin 0 14 00 5093 0 £2.95 478pp tp Jonathan Field VERIFIED
It is interesting. It certainly points out which records have missing fields. They could even be highlighted in a different color. Alvonruff 12:04, 4 Jan 2007 (CST)
A couple of minor points: (1) Keep in mind that "Binding" can be up to 32 characters long; (2) Can we make 0000-00-00 display as "unknown" here and elsewhere? Ahasuerus 12:08, 4 Jan 2007 (CST)
The main downside I have seen with tables, such as the DAW list, is that a single long string can push a column's width out to the point that viewing is a pain. I guess you could play with fixed width columns. The upside as you noticed is that it's easier to spot bad/missing data. For example, I already fixed the ISBN that had spaces in it and now need to figure out the ISBN13 that was entered with hyphens and got truncated. Marc Kupper 12:19, 4 Jan 2007 (CST)
Follow-up on the long strings - In staring at the table I just realized that we encourage people to use the full title, including sub-titles, for publications and so the titles can get very long. Marc Kupper 13:06, 4 Jan 2007 (CST)
On the colors - I deliberately left the verified column in even though it's a waste of screen real estate because some people are color blind and I was not sure if yellow or a similar color/only indicator would be visible. For a while the DAW list had a “p” in the far right column for verified books (physical or primary verification) but when I ran out of screen real-estate I took the “p” out though have a note in the queue to put it back as I’m sure my choice of light cyan to indicate verified books is invisible to some people. Marc Kupper 12:27, 4 Jan 2007 (CST)
There are different types of color blindness. Some color blind people don't see any colors at all and "yellow on white" may be hard for them to see. However, that's a very small percentage of the color blind population. Most color blind people should be able to see bright yellow on white. Ahasuerus 12:37, 4 Jan 2007 (CST)

(unindent) I added edition counts to the table and also indented the "other publications" but in doing the table edit I realized it's sorting should be fixed up. My thinking is 1) sort publishers from first to newest and then indent under that. For example, the 1970 Ace should be just after the rows for Parnassus. 2) Sort the 0000/Unknown lines at the end when it's indented as part of a list for a publisher for as these are almost always later reprints rather than simply “unknown.” 2a) Including the price in the sort for a publisher's rows would get the later unknown-date printings in the right order though the mix of $, L, and £ plus pb/hc can cause problems with this. Marc Kupper 12:48, 4 Jan 2007 (CST)

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