User talk:Biomassbob


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Can you look at [ this page]. I just added a non-fiction book from another Brian Murphy (born 1973 so the 1983 stuff is not his) and I have a strong suspicion that all these Howard essays and the review at the bottom belong to him and not to the guy who wrote about Lewis in the 80s... Or possibly yet another Brian Murphy - but considering [ this boo], I think we can connect. What do you think? Anything in any of those verified magazines/books about Brian Murphy? There may be even a third one hiding in there (the work in the late 90s) but who knows...[[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:31, 26 March 2020 (EDT)
Can you look at [ this page]. I just added a non-fiction book from another Brian Murphy (born 1973 so the 1983 stuff is not his) and I have a strong suspicion that all these Howard essays and the review at the bottom belong to him and not to the guy who wrote about Lewis in the 80s... Or possibly yet another Brian Murphy - but considering [ this boo], I think we can connect. What do you think? Anything in any of those verified magazines/books about Brian Murphy? There may be even a third one hiding in there (the work in the late 90s) but who knows...[[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:31, 26 March 2020 (EDT)
: And as soon as I wrote all that, I figured it out on the back cover of the new book- the guy with the book is indeed the author of all those Howard essays is the magazines. Do you mind if I move them over? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:33, 26 March 2020 (EDT)
: And as soon as I wrote all that, I figured it out on the back cover of the new book- the guy with the book is indeed the author of all those Howard essays is the magazines. Do you mind if I move them over? [[User:Anniemod|Annie]] 20:33, 26 March 2020 (EDT)
::Of course not. Good catch! [[User:Biomassbob|Bob]] 23:11, 26 March 2020 (EDT)

Revision as of 03:11, 27 March 2020

Archive of older messages


W. I. Van der Poel vs W. J. Van der Poel

Hi, You verified copy of They'd Rather Be Right has as illustrator of the cover art W. J. Van der Poel. Could that be a typo for W. I. Van der Poel? Wikipedia seems to think so.--Dirk P Broer 20:40, 3 September 2019 (EDT)

Another day, another typo! Fixed. Thanks! Bob 20:48, 3 September 2019 (EDT)

Kam Oi Lee

We seem to be cross-editing - did Fixer dump two of those into the queue?. The copyright page has "Mary A. K. Lee" but the contents everywhere I can find it says "Kam Oi Lee" (including this and the cover. So we go with the latter here - until someone seeing a title page can prove it otherwise:) Annie 19:22, 4 September 2019 (EDT)

Yes, I guess we are. I looked at the fixer item, decided it was easier to clone the hardcover version and eventually tried to reject the fixer input. That's when I found out someone else was involved. Anyhow, I got the author from the look inside, the copyrights. I guess Lee must have a legal name and a pen name. I defer to you, Annie. Bob 19:26, 4 September 2019 (EDT)
Ah, that explains it. When you do that - put the Fixer one on hold before you start cloning (or outright reject) - or we get into fun like that - sometimes there is more than one Moderator around (surprisingly) and more than one working the Fixer submissions (even more surprisingly) :) It is a good problem to have in general :)
Copyright pages often use legal names and not the names as used - so in such cases I would go by the cover (especially if I can find a link like the publishersweekly above that corroborates). I would use the Copyright page only if I cannot find anything else and note it on the pub page so it is clear where the name came from. Annie 19:39, 4 September 2019 (EDT)


I found Your PV publication and the cover art credit. But it's curious: Larry Rostant has this cover on his own book cover website. --Zapp 14:19, 12 September 2019 (EDT)

You're quite right. The credit as shown was given on the copyright page in the pub, and was for the same artists as were credited for the first two books in the series. But Rostant is fully credited for the fourth book, and it turns out he is also credited on the rear jacket flap for Competence. I have changed the credit and noted the problem in the pub notes. Thank you! Bob 15:51, 12 September 2019 (EDT)

Envisioning Other Worlds

A quick question about this publication record, which was created on 2019-08-24 when you approved this submission. Could you please follow up with the editor to determine what this anthology contains and what its format/binding is? Also, could you please correct (or help him correct) the capitalization and the publisher and explain how to verify a publication? TIA! Ahasuerus 08:08, 13 September 2019 (EDT)

Underway. Bob 15:42, 13 September 2019 (EDT)
Thanks! Ahasuerus 17:33, 13 September 2019 (EDT)

Flowers of War

Hi Bob,

Are you going to work with the editor on this one? We have capitalization issues (Across in "Travelling across the City in Autumn", missing price (as he owns it, either there is a printed price or a note is needed if there isn't any, an image issue (site we do not allow) and they need help understanding the difference between nonfiction and an essay for that last item at the bottom. Especially with them being a newish editor, better not to let them get taught bad practices from the start :) Let me know if I can assist you in any way in these cases - I will be more than happy to give you a hand.Annie 17:24, 16 September 2019 (EDT)

Annie, I will work with him on most of those items. To be honest, I think the lack of capitalization of the preposition "across" is correct, but generally I try to follow however the title in the pub capitalizes such words. So I'll suggest he do the same. Bob 18:45, 16 September 2019 (EDT)
Thanks for working with him.
Re: The policy on capitalization: if you want to change the policy, we can discuss it over in Community but as the policy is written, we normalize titles now. We have a written policy, we enforce it until we agree on something else. Otherwise everyone will do what they feel is right and the data will start looking ragged... Teaching a new editor NOT to follow the rules is really not a good idea. If you go that route, you just create more work for the editors that need to fix these. :( Annie 19:15, 16 September 2019 (EDT)
Bob, you really need to step up your game. I agree with Annie and other comments you got. Your moderation quality is not at par with the other moderators. MagicUnk 01:54, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
Well, Bob is a new moderator, so occasional bumps in the road are to be expected. That said, I would emphasize a few things:
  • Following the ISFDB data entry rules and standards, in this case the case normalization standards listed in Help:Screen:NewPub. If different moderators were to enforce the data entry standards differently, the project would suffer and then stall.
  • Asking for advice in borderline and otherwise unclear cases. In some cases there is a great of history behind the current data entry practices. Asking for clarification may help explain why certain records were handled differently in the past, clarify the causes of discrepancies, etc.
  • Being extra careful when dealing with new editors. Depending on the editor, it may require a lot of hand-holding and multiple follow-ups. It can mean a significant time commitment and sometimes a communications challenge due to language barriers, preconceived notions, etc. As Annie said earlier, it's important to guide them in the right direction from the start. Ahasuerus 08:49, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
Thanks for chiming in Ahasuerus.
Bob, that statement from me above - now that I'm rereading it - came out way too blunt. Apologies for that. I could say that I was in a rush this morning and wanted to voice my concerns around data quality and data consistency and that that is very important for the ISFDB, but that doesn't diminish the fact that I could have been more tactful about it. Again, apologies for the way I formulated that. Regards MagicUnk 11:54, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
Not a problem, I have a fairly thick skin. I understand the ISFDB title capitalization rules, and that they are as simple as possible so that editors don't have to exercise their brains to identify prepositions, which the standard English I was taught back in the Stone Age says should not be capitalized in titles. O.K., I'll conform, but I'll never be as up tight as some of you seem to be about trivia, it's simply not my nature. Bob 14:06, 17 September 2019 (EDT)

The Peristyle columns

Hi Bob,

Regarding this update and 2 more like that - I think that you misread the approval screen a bit and approved a change of an author name in a PV'd publications (thinking the update is in the parent maybe - I had done that often enough before scrambling to fix). I fixed these and added a note to the editor explaining how we deal with author names confirmations from secondary sources but decided to ping you as well so you know what happened if you find the old updates again. Thanks! Annie 10:55, 17 September 2019 (EDT)

Thanks, Annie. I did get confused; now I'll be on the lookout for future instances, although I doubt they are very common. Bob 13:27, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
Anytime :) They do happen fairly often with small magazines and anthologies - unsigned editorials that everyone knows the author of but they are not credited anywhere in the publication for example (or credited weirdly). And even more often when we discover house pseudonyms or new pseudonyms of authors (not with uncredited in that case but same applies - we leave it as it is printed and we variant to the actual writer). So I suspect you will see more of them - not as many as the more common changes but still. :)
Also keep in mind that the EditTitle does not show up on "Changed Primary verifications" -- so when the author is changed this way (or the title), the PVs get no notification at all - even if they are very active and these tend to be big changes. So if I see editTitle inside of a PV'd title that changes the title or author, I tend to look twice before approving even if it looks straight forward (and then still manage to mess up some that I need to fix after that... part of the job description) :) Annie 13:46, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
Oh, wow, that lack of notification does indeed make it particularly important to be careful. I guess I'd be skeptical about assigning unsigned editorials unless the style of the essay makes it clear who did the writing, or there was some believable secondary source. I do assume the editor of the pub is the likely author, but I'm not all that sure! Bob 17:57, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
Well, we always need a secondary source - the author's/editor's site or the magazine site usually spelling it out for us or a published collection of the essays under their real name. Or the thing posted online with the actual name attached. Small presses and small magazines can be... interesting this way. If it is just an assumption, we document in the notes ("it is most likely X") but we do not variant until we find corroboration (like what happened up for the Peristyle columns :)
Basically anything that is not editPub does NOT get added to the "Changed Primary verifications" - merges, removal of titles, imports, edits of titles directly and so on - all of those need manual notification if it is serious enough (and a lot of attention). It is still better than not having the "Changed Primary verifications" at all - but it does have limitations - and you can do a lot of damage without touching editPub. You get used to it after a while - my eyes first go down to see if I have verifiers when a name/author is being touched. :) And yeah, you can bet that I still press Approve when I should not - at least these are easy to reverse - some bigger updates are a pain to untangle back :) Annie 18:21, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
Annie, I guess I really don't much care if someone adds to or changes my entries. I know a lot of editors do care, and I try to be very careful when I change anyone else's entry, and always notify them. But for me, it just isn't very important. It turns out that most of the time when someone modifies a pub I've verified, it is one that someone else entered and I just was a second or later verifier. Not all of the time, but usually. When someone finds something I missed, I'm just grateful. Bob 22:23, 17 September 2019 (EDT)
Notifications serve as adding a new set of eyes (or 3) and ensuring that we do not lose any content we have by mistake. Useful changes are one thing; changes because someone does not understand the system and tries to convert the book to another (by mistake or because edit and clone are next to each other) do damage the data - usually because someone pressed a wrong button or did not realize what they are supposed to do. That's it for me :) Anyway - I hope you have a nice evening :)Annie 22:41, 17 September 2019 (EDT)

Astro-Adventures: Tales of Scientifiction, June 1989

Hello Bob,

Can you check the author of this essay? Is he really "Captain Astrol"? We have quite a lot of those hiding under Captain Astro so is this a typo or is it indeed credited this way? The pair of the names popped up on a report so I figured I should stop by and ask.

And while you are on Captain Astro's page - can you look at the mix of essays and short stories that seem to be similar to each other. Are they really a mix? (as you had verified most if not all of the involved issues, I hope you can check the magazines) :) Thanks in advance! Annie 03:06, 18 September 2019 (EDT)

The "Astrol" was another damn typo; fixed. I'm not sure what you are asking for the mix of items in the pubs. Yeah, the items in the pubs are definitely as listed. Price was publishing a bunch of fanzines at the time, so it's not too surprising that he didn't get terribly inventive about what he put in each of the zines. They each tend to follow a pattern (I have most of them).
Incidentally, it's almost certain the "Captain Astro" is Price, but I'm not aware of any secondary source that proves that! Bob 11:11, 18 September 2019 (EDT)
Half of those Control Room pieces are entered as essays, half are entered as short stories. I would expect all of them to be either one or the other - so just making sure. Annie 12:18, 18 September 2019 (EDT)
O.K., I made them all essays, and I found a couple of SHORTFICTIONs that are now short stories (really short in those cases). Thanks for explaining what you meant! Bob 12:57, 18 September 2019 (EDT)
Thanks for fixing these - and sorry that I was not clearer earlier - it did made sense in my head. :) As shortfiction is the default type when you add new content items, that happens often (both for essays and for intertior art) so I just go asking people if they should really be like that.
I agree with you on the attribution - nothing to make sure it is him (yet). Maybe one day. :) Annie 13:46, 18 September 2019 (EDT)

Andrew Dunn, Andrew Dunne and Andrew Duane

Hi, You are the primary verifier of Destiny, V1n1-V1n6, Spring 1950-Winter 1951, in which is contained Destiny, #1 Spring 1950. That issue has The Log of the Arcton Maid by Andrew Dunn and The Darker Shado by Andrew Dunne. Can either one -or both- of those names be typo's for Andrew Duane?--Dirk P Broer 15:48, 22 September 2019 (EDT)

Thank you, they both are most likely Andrew Duane. The problem isn't typos, but the way the pub was reproduced. A lot of letters are cut off or half effaced. I think the first issue was probably mimeographed. In any event, I really couldn't read Mr. Duane's name very well in either case, but the more I look at the pub, your suggestion that they were Duane is more persuasive. Bob 17:58, 22 September 2019 (EDT)
Ye Olde Mimeographer! That brings back memories....--Dirk P Broer 21:58, 22 September 2019 (EDT)

Conan the Barbarian (Gnome Press)

For this verified publication,, I am adding a publication date of 1954-11-01, which is the date listed in the Library of Congress copyright registration. PatConolly 03:41, 26 September 2019 (EDT)

Wow, beyond the call of duty! Thank you. Bob 14:28, 26 September 2019 (EDT)

The Coming of Conan (Gnome Press)

For this verified pub,, I've also added the publication date from the copyright registration. PatConolly 03:45, 26 September 2019 (EDT)

And thanks again. Bob 14:29, 26 September 2019 (EDT)

Art Folio No. 7: The Starmont Covers

Hi Bob, could you check this portfolio for me? Does it state anything about the collaboration between Stephen Fabian and his son? I'm trying to verify my (too few) copies of the Starmont reader's guides, and #2, 3, 6 and 8 all credit the cover art as by 'Stephen E. Fabian, Sr. and Jr.'. I can correct only the ones I own of course, but I suspect someone has made a mess of the cover credit in the reader's guides. The notes on Stephen E. Fabian, Jr. and Stephen E. Fabian, Sr. are wrong i.m.o. (and who is Peter Fabian anyway (:)? Thanks, --Willem 05:17, 9 October 2019 (EDT)

No joy, Willem. There is no credit given to his son; the copyright is "by artist Stephen E. Fabian", and the copyright plate is signed by just Stephen E. Fabian. He also noted that he did the lettering for most of these covers, as well as the art. The only two where he didn't do the lettering was for the Asimov guide (except the "AL76" on the robot's head) and the "Shadowings" cover. I really feel fortunate to have been able to get these folios; there are only 20 copies, and I got copy #1. They were sold on e-Bay, but Fabian contacted me after I did a "buy it now" on the first one and asked if I wanted copy #1 for the rest of the series. Bob 13:05, 9 October 2019 (EDT)
Thanks for checking. I noticed you have verified a number of the Starmont Readers Guides. Can you check how the illustrator(s) are credited? I'll also ask the other verifiers one of these days (except Hauck of course). Nice story b.t.w. Your collection of illustration works makes me more and more envious. --Willem 15:20, 10 October 2019 (EDT)
I'll be glad to look; give me a day or two to track them down. I looked through all my Fabian portfolios (23 of them); the only mention of Jr. was one plate that Fabian said was created for Jr. and two portfolios that were copyrighted by Jr. (artwork attributed to Sr. and most of the plates with "SF" signature. It was nice to have a chance to look through all of the portfolios! Bob 21:55, 10 October 2019 (EDT)
O.K., found them quicker than I thought I would. I have five. Those for Zelazny, Leiber and Delany credit Sr. and Jr. for the covers. The other two do not attribute anyone, although the Merritt cover is clearly Fabian's work. The Merritt volume is a tpb (all the others are hc); I don't know if that makes any difference. The Howard volume is a photo of Howard that appears in many other places (at least 18 in books I own). I don't know if it's significant that the first three are among the first 10 Starmont Guides, while the others are #35 and #43. Anyhow, that's all I have. Bob 23:13, 10 October 2019 (EDT)
Thanks for checking. I credited Zelazny, Leiber and Delany to both Fabians, and added a note to the pub series. --Willem 14:36, 19 October 2019 (EDT)

Конан Авантуриста


Let me fix this. Some titles are slightly wrong and the authors need their Bulgarian names. Just a reminder - Bulgarian is my native language, you can always drop me a note and ask for assistance. Annie 00:39, 16 October 2019 (EDT)

All done. We only need the original of the cover now. :) Annie 01:20, 16 October 2019 (EDT)
Thank you so much, Annie. Some time back I decided to use the Howard web site to enter foreign language versions of his books, but stopped after Hauck ripped into me for daring to fill in something on a pub he verified. To be honest, I know the person who is the likely source of the French pubs (he's a personal friend and a true Howardhead) on the website, and I trust him a lot more than I ever did Hauck. But one thing I did accomplish, I got the site's manager to agree that ISFDB could use his cover scans, and Ahasuerus put the permission into the software. Anyhow, I decided to start up entering the foreign language pubs again, and as an experiment, picked the Bulgarian pubs as a test ground knowing you were there to keep me on track. I can obviously only use what is on the Howard site, so when the artist's name is given only in English, I will have to use that. I'll try a few more in the next day or two, and would appreciate it if you would look them over as I do. Bob 14:05, 16 October 2019 (EDT)
If you have contact with the site owner, will he be open to receiving some updates so his data gets updated? He got the title of the book wrong - it is Авантюриста and not Авантуриста for example (у is read as "u", ю is "yu" basically :) As the artists are not credited, these will stay in English anyway (Bulgarian publishing at that time was... interesting). I have a better source for the Bulgarian ones in the Bard series so I'll add the rest of the series probably tonight - I did a few last night (plus it is faster). As you can see from the pub series, I did start on them at some point and then never finished. But if you add something, I will fix it if needed (and I can do the same for most of the Eastern and Central European ones) - just ping me if I do not see it. Annie 14:12, 16 October 2019 (EDT)
Annie, he would love you for such help! Go to, his e-mail address is on the cover page at the bottom. His name is Bill Thom. I've made a number of contributions to him in the past, and found that he's really good to work with.Bob 14:20, 16 October 2019 (EDT)
Will do. Let me get these added here (correctly:) ) and I will send him a note with links and explanations. Do let me know if/when you decide to work on the more exotic languages and I will be more than happy to assist in anyway I can. I can add Howard on my ever growing list of things to look at in my languages but... it is a looong list so you will probably beat me to it so I will just assist. As for verified pubs and changes - different editors like recording different things despite the rules. Sometimes thing clash badly. It smooths out - mostly. Annie 14:25, 16 October 2019 (EDT)

Annie, I've added another Bulgarian pub, Conan the Usurper. I seem to have one problem in particular, L. Sprague de Camp's name. He is named as the coauthor of the collection, as well as coauthor of two of the stories. The first pub, Conan the Adventurer, was the same way, de Camp was the coauthor of the pub as well as one of the stories. Can we get his name in the Bulgarian alphabet in there? Bob 23:32, 16 October 2019 (EDT)

Got it but... he is not credited in the Bulgarian publication - on the collection level or on the stories level (the same way he was not in the other one) so I had to pull him out as we go by what the pub says. He is credited for the essay though (with yet another version of the spelling). I think I fixed everything: see here. The poor guy just never got any love from the publishers in Bulgaria. And to make things funnier, the later books in the series (like this one) switched publisher. Annie 23:40, 16 October 2019 (EDT)
PS: and I added a few more last night :) The only one still missing by Howard is "Conan the Wanderer". And that one is even worse - not only de Camp is not credited but Carter is not either. Considering that Howard did not even write one of the stories (Black Tears), that's especially extreme. Did I mention how much fun Bulgarian publishing was at the time? I need to think a bit on how to credit that particular story (well... I know how but...) :) Annie 23:51, 16 October 2019 (EDT)
Fair enough. Of course, I really don't know if the Bulgarian pub credited him (or maybe you do from other sources). I also did not disambiguate the Introduction, although by making it a variant, that really does anyhow. Should the Intros have the book title in parentheses? Bob 00:26, 17 October 2019 (EDT)
Yep for the introductions (per policy) and I did that in both while adding transliterations. :) I actually sent a question to someone who has the book to confirm the attribution in the actual physical books (the SFBG DB is pretty good for that - books do not get added there without inspection and I talk to the admin often but mistakes happen now and then). If somehow that was messed up on the initial upload, I will fix it as soon as I get a confirmation. Annie 00:36, 17 October 2019 (EDT)

Submissions need completing

Hi Bob, you may want to reject this (already done) and approve this. :) Annie 02:58, 18 October 2019 (EDT)

Sometimes time runs out on me before I can check. Thanks for your help. Bob 13:03, 18 October 2019 (EDT)
Oh, I know the feeling and I know how hard it is to notice them when the board is full - thus me running a messenger service when some stay more than a day or two :) Annie 15:58, 18 October 2019 (EDT)

Gideon the Ninth

Hi Bob, wanted to let you know I submitted update to the notes of Gideon the Ninth - details in the notes to moderators. Let me know if you disagree. Regards MagicUnk 08:25, 20 October 2019 (EDT)

Cool with me; approved. Bob 13:37, 20 October 2019 (EDT)

The Engines of God (map)

Can you think of any reason why this INTERIOR ART title referenced by your verified copy of The Engines of God shouldn't be merged with this INTERIOR ART title referenced by the other four Ace publications? I just checking out the entry for a copy of the paperback I just picked up and noticed a button on the menu called Check for Duplicate Titles and this duplication came up. ../Doug H 10:50, 20 October 2019 (EDT)

Nice catch! I merged them, and also included the map in the Easton Press edition. In fact I used the title from the latter. Bob 13:45, 20 October 2019 (EDT)

Бури над Ориента


I have no idea where he got the contents for this book but... it does not contain these stories. Or any Howard stories (despite being credited to him). I am checking again back home but if my memory does not deceive me (I had this one once upon a time), this one is a non-authorized novel written by a Bulgarian author (and it is definitely a novel). I already fixed the title (wrong letters again) but I will be deleting the contents as soon as you are done with it so... you may as well save yourself some time and not connect them. Annie 16:30, 21 October 2019 (EDT)

The contents in the 2 Conan volumes is also badly mangled (not to mention that none of those editions uses the E. in Howard's name :) - the stories in the second at least somewhat match the stories in the book (although most titles are slightly off) but I will need to rework the first as there are stories which are off completely so need to see if they are misplaced or replaced. I will work on that tonight and get them straightened out and send a message to the admin of that site you are pulling data from. Will let you know when these are fixed. Anything else besides these 3 I need to look at?Annie 16:55, 21 October 2019 (EDT)
Wow, don't know what I'd do without your help! I of course don't know who provided the data to HowardWorks, but Bill Thom is kind of helpless if someone provides bad info. As for the "E." in Howard's name, I noticed the covers did not use his middle initial, but since I had no access to the title pages, I'm always reluctant to go by the cover alone. I'll keep plugging away, and maybe we'll eventually get all this stuff straightened out. Bob 19:04, 21 October 2019 (EDT)
As soon as my source gets his books down from storage (you know how it is - it will take a bit of logistics) so we can verify them again, I will send Bill detailed notes on what needs fixing. And as for title pages - Bulgarian publishers usually match them :) I am verifying but the guy is rarely credited with an E. in Bulgarian. And Elf is a special case of a publisher - they published a ton of Bulgarian-written novels as if they were from Howard. :) Annie 19:13, 21 October 2019 (EDT)
So we will need to split the blame here - "Бури над Ориента" indeed has the stories inside (book being checked and all that - apparently a copy/paste mistake from a spreadsheet) but most of the titles are messed up. I will fix that all today - never got to it last night. Annie 10:28, 22 October 2019 (EDT)

Mixed Men

Publisher here changed from Amereon to Amereon House to reunite it with all its siblings. Based on the note, it seems like there is no data on the publisher in the book anyway -- but if you prefer Amereon, please revert the change. Thanks! Annie 19:26, 27 October 2019 (EDT)

I have no problem with the change. Bob 23:38, 27 October 2019 (EDT)

Octavia Gone

Hi Bob. On March 20, 2019, Saga Press became an imprint of Gallery. The only book we have post the cutoff is your verified. Do you mind if I update the publisher to "Saga Press / Gallery" so things get a bit better organized? :) Annie 00:18, 30 October 2019 (EDT)

I really don't mind, but the pub does say "Saga Press". It seems to me there are many other publishers that are imprints of bigger companies, but appear without the name of the bigger outfit. Is there some rule for when the larger publishing house name should appear? Bob 08:10, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
That's complicated. I am not sure when and who split them - I think that following and noting the parent companies was useful in the days when imprints did not change hands as often (although there are a few notable exceptions there); these days I cannot care less if the company is under one corporate umbrella or another - Saga is Saga. So I was just mopping after someone did the split and left it in a weird state (the publisher name was not even correct on the Gallery side). And with the inability to show the lists together, this whole splitting is counterproductive. Let me post in Community - I will be all for merging them again - books from Saga are books from Saga regardless of the parent. Annie 12:45, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
Do note that to date not a single book could be found with 'Saga Press, an imprint of Gallery' on its copyright page. Since we go with what's in the book, this implies for me that ALL pubs which currently have Saga Press/Gallery must be updated to Saga, irrespective of what Amazon or anyone else says... MagicUnk 16:00, 30 October 2019 (EDT)
It is a bigger discussion and with publishers we do not always go with what the book says IF we record them in a certain way for a reason (the US/UK designations for example). let me finish what I am working on and will post over in Community. Annie 16:29, 30 October 2019 (EDT)

Howard in Bulgarian

I think I got them all cleaned up and sorted out. One of the collections may need further changes - someone is pulling the book out - but other from that, should be all set. Annie 03:54, 1 November 2019 (EDT)

Thank you, Annie. I much appreciate your help. If you are interested, now I'm doing Croatian. Bob 11:57, 1 November 2019 (EDT)
I will take a look although unlike Bulgarian and Russian, I won't be able to spot problems at a glance. We do have a Serbian/Croatian editor though so as soon as you are done with them, I will ask him to take a look if does not mind for something that just does not make sense in the language. And I will drop a note to Bill about changes on the Bulgarian ones as soon as all books are checked again (which may take a bit) Annie 13:20, 1 November 2019 (EDT)
The Croatian titles were looked over by a native speaker (Debolestis) and a few needed corrections were made. He is also going to try to track down the one where we have the titles only in English. If you want to do the Serbian ones, same person can help as well :) Annie 15:58, 10 November 2019 (EST)

Tailpieces in the August 1925 Weird Tales

Bob -

In this help section under Title/Artwork, it mentions that artwork independent from other content should be given the title of the publication. Weird Tales frequently inserted tailpiece illustrations that did not illustrate the story after which they appear. I added a title series a while back to track these as they are frequently reused. I've been working on the August 1925 issue. You have verified the Girasol reprint of this issue. I noticed that several of the tailpieces had been titled with the story name and I have already changed a couple of them ([1] and [2]). I've also added two regular illustrations to the series which were subsequently re-used as tailpieces. There are two other illustration, however, that I need to ask you about one of them before they can be re-titled. You have the illustration on page 222 as by Andrew Brosnatch (it is the same as this which first appeared in the January 1925 issue). I can't see a Brosnatch signature for this one and I was wondering whether you have determined that he was the artist from a secondary source. Jaffrey/Cook is no help as they list that story as not illustrated. If you have a good source for Brosnatch, then we should re-title that illustration as "Weird Tales, August 1925 [3]", if not we should go with uncredited and we don't need a disabmiguator. This also will determine whether the illustration on page 265 is the 3rd or 4th by Brosnatch in this issue. That one also first appeared in the January 1925 issue where Brosnatch's signature is more clearly evident. Please let me know your source for the earlier illustration and I can take care of adjusting the two names. Thanks for your help. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 17:58, 3 November 2019 (EST)

Ron, I have to admit that I cloned the original magazine and did not pass judgement on the artwork cited. It is indeed the same one that appeared in the 1925 edition, and there is no signature showing. And it is a tailpiece, not an illustration of the story. While I have no doubt that the artist was Brosnatch based on the artistic technique, I have no source that confirms the artist's identity. Bob 19:43, 3 November 2019 (EST)

The Last Celt: A Bio-Bibliography of Robert Ervin Howard

Hi Bob, I'm verifying this edition, and I find two titles I think are varianted the wrong way. Letter to Farnsworth Wright, circa Summer 1931 looks very strange with a date of 1991-03-00 and first published in 1975 as 'Letter: Robert E. Howard to Farnsworth Wright, circa 1931'. The other is Robert Ervin Howard: A Memoriam. Both the canonical and the variant are dated 1936-09-00. First publication in the database is from 1946 under the variant title, and no title note explains this. Since you own most of these publications, can you check where the 1936 date comes from and why the canonical/variant is this way. If you agree I would like to reverse the varianting on both titles and add the right dates. Thanksfor checking, --Willem 16:42, 6 November 2019 (EST)

Thanks for catching these. The first I just can't understand, since I entered both the pub with the first appearance and the later one credited, and I actually entered the first one before the second. Just a dumb mistake, now corrected. The second has the correct date, but needed a note explaining where that date came from, now added. The reference was in Skull-Face and Others. Unfortunately, the magazine in which the letter first appeared is not verified and shows only stories, not the letters to the editor. Please make any corrections you now think are needed. Bob 21:25, 6 November 2019 (EST)
Thanks! I reversed the varianting of the letter. For Lovecraft's memorial, according to Howardworks the first publication was as 'In Memoriam: Robert E. Howard', so I kept that as canonical title moved the note there and changed the date of the variant to 1946-00-00, the date of the variant's first publication. To me it looks much better now. --Willem 15:17, 7 November 2019 (EST)

Council of Fire

When you have a chance, can you review this discussion? Thanks! Annie 14:09, 12 November 2019 (EST)

Credit on copyright page was Tom Kidd. On rear jacket flap it was Dave Seeley. Fixed. Bob 19:34, 12 November 2019 (EST)
Oh dear. Aren't those always fun? Sounds like someone used a blanket copyright page and forgot to fix the name of the artist... Thanks for checking the book! Annie 19:45, 12 November 2019 (EST)

The Folio Society Anansi Boys

Hi Bob,

As this book technically has two separate covers (the slipcase and the cover itself), I was wondering if I should just add two records here so we can variant this one. This way we connect them both-ways and if the art is ever used elsewhere, they all stay connected. What do you think?Annie 16:06, 18 November 2019 (EST)

Sounds like a good idea; I didn't know how to do this. Bob 16:10, 18 November 2019 (EST)
On Pub edit, there is a "Add Cover". Then name it so it is clear what is what. :) Done. :) See if you like how it looks. Just to make sure, can you compare visually this image to the one in the book (just making sure it is the splipcase (to the right) and not the cover that was added). :) Annie 16:19, 18 November 2019 (EST)
Those are the correct images. But where did the images come from? Can we use images from The Folio Society? I had to enter the publication myself, since it wasn't in the data base. An interiorart image is earlier in this same Spectrum. Bob 16:22, 18 November 2019 (EST)
Folio Society's page - as pointing to it from here is not hot-linking (no direct loading), links are fine in the messages. We cannot use the image directly from there but I may have an image I can upload - I supposedly do have this book somewhere (I really need to work on my books). If the other cover is also in the book, connect them as well? Annie 16:28, 18 November 2019 (EST)

Annie Fenner vs. Arnie Fenner

Hi, You entered Harlan Ellison 1934-2018 in Spectrum 26: The Best in Contemporary Fantastic Art as by Annie Fenner. Can that be a typo for Arnie Fenner?.--Dirk P Broer 10:09, 22 November 2019 (EST)

You are correct. Fixed. I haven't yet had time to go through that pub for typos yet, but I'll get to it this weekend sometime. Bob 17:05, 22 November 2019 (EST)


In comparing our record for Sea-Cursed with the Internet Archive scan, I'm seeing some issues I'm hoping you can double check for me:

  • page 15, scan shows title without quotes around Pole-Star and the author as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
  • page 270, scan shows both Robert Bloch and Henry Kuttner credited
  • page 454, scan shows title without "the" before Sea-Maid
  • page 493, scan shows author as Jack Dunn

Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:31, 22 November 2019 (EST)

The first three are all valid as you state. The second happened because the story was merged with the stories in the pulps, where apparently Kuttner was not credited. I fixed all three. The last one is wrong. Dann is credited on both the ToC and at the top of the story. Note that the story appears in three other pubs under Dann's name. Bob 20:43, 22 November 2019 (EST)
For the last one, I meant Jack Dann (the "u" was my typo). The publication record has the credit as Jack M. Dann. -- JLaTondre (talk) 20:48, 22 November 2019 (EST)
Bob, did you mean to do this? This changed the author and the title not only in your book but in 12 more books, 3 of them PVed and some others with secondary verifications. And in some of them the quotes obviously need to be there and the author of the pub does not have the Sir. That does not look right. Annie 00:29, 23 November 2019 (EST)
For reference purposes, here is what this record looks like on the development server:
  • Title: The Captain of the "Pole-Star"
  • Author: Arthur Conan Doyle
Ahasuerus 10:15, 23 November 2019 (EST)
O.K., I think everything is straightened out. Most of the errors originated in merges that should have been variants. Where I got the "M." from in Dann's name I have no idea, though. Bob 17:33, 23 November 2019 (EST)
I still see the change as active, Bob and it needs to be reversed, your version of the story unmerged and varianted. Because you still have changed 13 books when trying to change one. Annie 17:37, 23 November 2019 (EST)

Annie, as near as I can tell, I did unmerge and variant the story in my pub. I went back through the other pubs effected, and think they are correct as well; I put in "Sir" if it seemed to be warranted, and quote marks as well. Bob 18:06, 23 November 2019 (EST)

Yours is now fine indeed. But there is still a problem with the one that got edited when it should not have been. This is the original record that had the quotes and no Sir. There are still 2 PV'd and a few non-PV'd publications under it which now are under a different title compared to where they were before your update. If you believe that these really do not have the quotes and have the Sir, please talk to the PVs and fix the rest of those books although from the looks of it, they indeed should not have Sir -- but as it stands now, you changed their titles with no notification based on a "well, I think it is warranted". See one for example - none has the Sir besides the one you changed to have it. Or this one - same situation. Do you really think that these look fine? As I said, you should have reversed the change on the title (restoring the remaining ones) and then dealt with yours. And then if you wanted to, check if any of the remaining need to joining you under the Sir name. Annie 18:18, 23 November 2019 (EST)
I've restored the title as it was before your initial change and will discuss with the PV whose book may be wrongly merged here to see if it needs to be pulled out. Annie 18:39, 23 November 2019 (EST)
As seems to happen so often, I really didn't understand your original comment, primarily because I didn't know you could "restore" a changed title. How is that done? Also as usual, I really appreciate your help. Bob 18:44, 23 November 2019 (EST)
Just ask - I will be happy to explain what I mean. The root of the problem here was that you did an edit instead of unmerge and then variant your story. When you tried to fix it, you got your story in the correct place but the ones affected from the earlier change never got back where they were.
You cannot restore really but you can edit again and replace the values back as long as it is a single edit (much more complicated if there is a cascade of edits that followed) :) Ahasuerus posted what they originally were above so it was easy in this case. I pinged the PVs (for them to check their books anyway) and I also checked the Gutenberg book (here) and it definitely has the quotes and does not have a Sir despite its name being "The Captain of the Polestar and Other Tales" (no quotes here...). Always fun with Doyle :) I am missing one of the PVd books that used to be here though so will see if we can pull a list of pubs that were under this variant so we can make sure nothing got moved to a weird place by mistake. Annie 18:57, 23 November 2019 (EST)
The Project Gutenberg version does have the "Sir" in the credit. The very top of their files are their cataloging data. The transcribed title page is after the "*** START OF ..." line and is "By Sir Arthur Conan Doyle". It is easier to see in the HTML version. I will update that pub. -- JLaTondre (talk) 22:26, 23 November 2019 (EST)
Thank you, sir! Bob 22:31, 23 November 2019 (EST)
Oops - I saw the quotes and missed the Sir. Multiple sets of eyes and all that. Thanks for catching it. Annie 22:34, 23 November 2019 (EST)

I'm a little confused. The "Sir" appears as the author of the pub, so I would assume all the stories should have the "Sir" in the author's name, but they are almost all with it, than all varianted. So it isn't just this one story. Is that right? Bob 22:38, 23 November 2019 (EST)

Which pub? This one? They all have the Sir now (maybe you looked while they were still being worked on?)
Meanwhile I tracked down the other 3 pubs that went walking (The Captain of the 'Pole-Star': Weird and Imaginative Fiction) and brought them back. Look inside on the non-verified ebook shows the quotes and the lack of Sir as well so we are good with them being here. Annie 22:45, 23 November 2019 (EST)
Yep, that one. Guess it was out for repairs. Thanks, Annie. Bob 22:59, 23 November 2019 (EST)
Anytime :) At least something good came out from this whole thing - we found two books that needed fixes - yours and the Gutenberg one and got them repaired. 2 less mistakes in the DB - always a good thing. :) Annie 23:28, 23 November 2019 (EST)

KnightsBridge: The Art of Keith Parkinson

Hi, I've changed the date of the interior art p71 'The Hand of Chaos' to it's original publication date (1994-00-00) - your PV here. Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 23:29, 22 November 2019 (EST)

Good spot. Thank you. Bob 17:35, 23 November 2019 (EST)

One Who Walked Alone Introductions

We have several essays by Tevis Clyde Smith that seem like they may be the same essay. As you have verified all pubs with them, I'm hoping you can check it:

Are all three of these essays the same? Are the variations in titles correct? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:29, 23 November 2019 (EST)

Thanks for catching this one. All five editions of "One Who Walked Alone" have the same title on the Smith essay, which differs from the essays in the Smith pubs by using "the" instead of "this". All fixed now. Bob 18:40, 23 November 2019 (EST)

Merry Widow - interior art by Dave Seeley

Hi Bob, with your PV here, could I ask you to confirm if the plate on p12 is of a bluish-tinted nude with her back almost fully to the artist, turned slightly to the artist's right and with her arms above shoulder level? I'm trying to establish whether the title 'Mary Widow' by Dave Seeley in another publication (not yet on the database) is the same work. Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 10:21, 27 November 2019 (EST)

Yep. Bob 13:43, 27 November 2019 (EST)
Great, thanks. Kev. BanjoKev 13:52, 27 November 2019 (EST)

Dreadful Sleep

Added external ID and a note on the publication date to Dreadful Sleep.Jim 12:19, 28 November 2019 (EST)

Thanks! Bob 21:03, 28 November 2019 (EST)

Jean Kennard

In your verified Riverside Quarterly, August 1975 is a review & essay by Jean Kennard. Is there by chance any information in the pub about that author? I'm wondering if it might be Jean E. Kennard? See the later record for information on that author. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 11:24, 29 November 2019 (EST)

The only thing it says about Kennard is "University of New Hampshire". Given that Jean E. is supposed to be in California that same year, it seems unlikely the two are the same person. But the obituary of Jean Kennard at U. of N.H. published by the "UNH Today" says she was Jean Elizabeth Kennard, a professor of English and Women's Studies, died March 26, 2016 at age 73, born in England in 1936, taught at California State University Hayward until 1975 then moved east to take a position as professor of English at UNH, from which she retired in 2000. So the two are clearly the same person! Bob 16:57, 29 November 2019 (EST)
Nice detective work! I created the pseudonym relationship. -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:11, 30 November 2019 (EST)

Adding titles

Hi Bob,

This was actually trying to add a Foreword (see the "New Regular Titles" section - if it is there, there are new contents titles being added). Of course the title is wrong (missing disambiguation) and the page number is weird (looking at the contents, it looks unnumbered so I would have done |0.1 I think) but... the editor did submit a change. Easy to overlook so figured I will stop by and mention the section and what it means on the moderation screen. :) Annie 22:32, 29 November 2019 (EST)

Thanks, Annie. Missed that (obviously). Bob 09:43, 30 November 2019 (EST)
Happens - this specific screen used to mix me up a bit at the beginning as well - generally if there is anything but the pub section during a pub update, there is always a change in it. :) PS: don’t expect an answer from the editor - they never respond. :) Annie 14:52, 30 November 2019 (EST)

The King and His Court

Hi Bob,

Can you check the title of this one? The original cover has "Our" and not "The" at the beginning so making sure we do not have a typo somewhere in the art credit. And we have the interior art from the original magazine as well (which I just varianted as well). Someone added the chapbook this week so it came up in one of the reconciliation processes so I had been fixing it and the links around it. :) Thanks! Annie 16:32, 30 November 2019 (EST)

Title as shown. I realize the original cover was for "Our"; I entered the e-book myself after looking for it because of the artwork. This is one of a number of such entries I had to find to match artwork in Spectrum 26. Bob 17:39, 30 November 2019 (EST)
Thanks for checking again - as I said, I was making sure we did not have a typo :) I fixed the ebook (it was added as novel and with the title as per the interior image and not as the ebook actually carried). I think we are all fixed now :) Annie 17:48, 30 November 2019 (EST)


Refugees has a title note stating "Illustration for the story "The Knight of Pale Countenance" on p. 122 of Refugees by Darrell Schweitzer." So it seems like it should be varianted to The Knight of Pale Countenance. Since you have both pubs, would you mind checking? -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:18, 1 December 2019 (EST)

Well spotted! The two pubs were sitting virtually next to each other on my bookshelf. I only bought the Schweitzer pub because it was illustrated by Fabian, but I bought the folio 11 years before I bought the book, so didn't make the connection. Variant made. Bob 11:53, 1 December 2019 (EST)

Supernova Era

Hi Bob, I've enhanced the Notes for our verified Supernova Era, added the cover artist and replaced the rather faded cover image with one from Amazon. Cheers. PeteYoung 12:27, 1 December 2019 (EST)

Pete, I went back to the uploaded image. Every pub I've verified has an uploaded image; Amazon images do tend to be sharp, but it's better to have an ISFDB image where available.Bob 16:24, 1 December 2019 (EST)

Exchange of essay and review

Hi, Bob! I replaced the essay with the review for "The Satan Bug" here: the novel was identified as genre in the meantime. Christian Stonecreek 02:55, 3 December 2019 (EST)

Thanks! Bob 14:39, 3 December 2019 (EST)

Foundation and Earth - Asimov

Hi Bob, I'm trying to resolve some publishing dates and I'm hoping you might be able to help. You are active for this Doubleday 1st printing and I'm preparing a full edit submission for my copy of this Grafton 1st printing. Tangentially caught up in this because of a possibly suspect publishing date is the Doubleday Limited Edition.

The short story is that I think your Doubleday should be 1986-09-01 (1986-10-00 currently), my Grafton should be 1986-10-09 (1986-10-00 currently) and the Limited Edition should be 1986-01-00 (1986-10-09 currently). I might be wrong.

Here's what I have...

  • Locus1 here [3] has your Doubleday hc as 'Sep '86 (as in your pub notes) and has my Grafton hc as Oct '86.
  • Publishers weekly here [4], under 'Details' at the bottom of the review, has your Doubleday hc with a release date of 1986-09-01 (the other hc ISBN in there refers to the Doubleday Limited edition).
  • Amazon here [5] has your Doubleday as 1986-09-01.
  • Amazon here [6] has my Grafton as 1986-10-09.
  • Amazon here [7] has the Limited Edition as 1986-01-00 (I've posted SFJuggler inviting him to this post).

Do you have any other reference sources and what do you make of all this? Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 20:47, 6 December 2019 (EST)

Well, there is one more, Amazon here shows September 3 for the Doubleday edition. The October date seems the least likely to be correct; it's printing on the dust jacket, but that may have been printed well in advance of issuing the edition, and the publisher may have rushed to get the book out sooner. I guess I would go with the 10-03 date. That was a Wednesday, so the first would be reasonable as well. I guess we'll never be sure. Bob 22:00, 6 December 2019 (EST)
SFJuugler here. I've gone back and checked the listing in the Catalog of Copyright. I've had to update the listing on the limited edition due to a transcription error. Doubleday registered the copyright on 1986-10-09 but stated that the publication date was 1986-10-03. I would think that they would listed the earliest date that it was likely to be available for their own protection in any court cases. I suspect that Biomassbob is correct in that it was printed well in advance of the actual release. Barring any other hard data I'd go with the actual copyright registration dates. My 2 cents.Jim 17:54, 7 December 2019 (EST)
Bob, did you mean above "I would go with the 09-03 date. That was a Wednesday..." ? Kev. BanjoKev 08:53, 9 December 2019 (EST)
I've changed the date to 10-03, per Amazon and the Catalog of Copyright. Bob 11:06, 9 December 2019 (EST)
Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 11:28, 9 December 2019 (EST)

Alexandria Poster—1998

Somehow this was set as a short fiction which does not make sense in this book and with this artist so I set it to interior art. If it is indeed a short fiction, I will be happy to revert it and add notes to that effect. Annie 02:48, 10 December 2019 (EST)

Would you mind checking this one in the same book? Is the author really credited with the Japanese name? Annie 03:35, 10 December 2019 (EST)
One of the other verifiers confirmed both so this is just a notice that it had been fixed now. Annie 04:16, 10 December 2019 (EST)
Thanks, Annie. When I enter the many artworks in these Spectrums, sometimes I miss converting a piece of content to interiorart. Usually, I manage to catch these on my final review, but clearly not always.Bob 11:19, 10 December 2019 (EST)
Oh, I know - it happens. I had done that more than once. I was just surprised to find it in a book with three copies and 3 verifiers - but then the thing has 350 images or so so missing one was probably inevitable...:) Annie 11:31, 10 December 2019 (EST)

Foundation and Earth

Hello Bob,

Can you check the essay here? We seem to have two separate essays with that title - one from 1982 and one from 1986. Is there a date somewhere on it? We have the 1986 one here as well if we need to go down to comparing the text. Thanks! Annie 11:48, 10 December 2019 (EST)

You caught another one! It is the 1986 version. I unmerged it from the 1982 version, then varianted it to the one in parentheses. It's not clear to me if the parentheses really exist, but was not comfortable merging. Bob 13:57, 10 December 2019 (EST)
Nope, the parentheses do not exist - I added them this morning as a disambiguation (so we do not remerge by mistake while working on it) so it can be safely merged. I will merge and rewrite the note there to explain why we have the disambiguation... Or leave it out and rely on notes for now maybe. Annie 14:00, 10 December 2019 (EST)
Removed the parentheses for now - let's see how this shapes up -- we may be fine leaving it without them. Thanks for checking! And that one getting fixed should be attributed to BanjoKev (and me messing up with a merge after approving based on the already messed up entry (the one we are pulling copies out from (such as yours)) - which sent us down the rabbit hole of untangling these two essays). It is a good thing when a mess-up leads to solving a bigger one. :) Annie 14:07, 10 December 2019 (EST)

The White Dragon

Hello Bob,

Can you check this one? Is it really "Del Rey / Ballantine" on the title page or is it just Del Rey? This is ~4 years after Del Rey split out from under Ballantine and became its own publisher. Annie 12:02, 12 December 2019 (EST)

It is just Del Rey. I'm surprised that I entered the publisher that way because I never got into that habit. It's possible that I just verified an already entered pub, I suppose. Fixed. This is really a strange little book; it's the size of a mass market paperback and the page quality is likewise that of an MMPB. Only one I've ever seen like that; I suspect that's why I bought it, since I have an SFBC omnibus with the pub in it, as well as a book-on-tape, and I don't really collect Anne McCaffrey. Fixed. Bob 14:14, 12 December 2019 (EST)
So I am not the only person that buys books just because they look weird :)
Thanks for fixing it! It is also possible that someone helpfully "fixed" it for you by mistake. I was chasing the last of the Del Rey's split ones that were in the wrong places after merging a different badly named Publisher into this one and noticing that we have some. So figured I will stop and ask you to check. I tend to ask instead of just fixing when possible because it could have been ether a wrong yer or a wrong Publisher - and you are in the best place to check. And with that the Del Reys are all sorted. For now. :) Annie 15:42, 12 December 2019 (EST)

Girasol Weird Tales January 1927

Hi Bob - I've updated the Wallis serial that is included in the January 1927 issue of Weird Tales which affects your verified copy of the Girasol Collectables reprint. We incorrectly had "George C. Wallis" as "Geo. C. Wallis". I've also added, to the original issue, the decorations and have swapped out the Wilkie Collins story for an alternate title. The scan I'm working from does not have the hyphen. You may want to consider deleting the Collins story from the reprint and then importing the entire issue which will pick up the missing content. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:25, 22 December 2019 (EST)

Thanks, Ron. Corrected it. You sure made it easy. Bob 16:48, 22 December 2019 (EST)

The Slow Regard of Silent Things - ISFDB standard for publisher-signed trade first editions

Hi, Bob. I posted a reply to you on my discussion page about this publication. Just want to clarify ISFDB standard. Thanks. Markwood 18:11, 23 December 2019 (EST)

Girasol Weird Tales February 1928

Hi Bob - I've made some changes to the original for another one of these. I corrected Derleth's credit for his letter to include his middle initial, which affected the credit in your verified reprint. I also added the decorations and a couple of letters by authors already in the database. Feel free to import these into your copy if you'd like. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:32, 24 December 2019 (EST)

Thanks, Ron. I did import them. Bob 15:15, 24 December 2019 (EST)

Prohibited Book 3

Hi Bob, can you take another look at this publicatin? It was on the cleanup report 'Title Dates Before First Publication Date'. I think it's a bit strange theat a Heavy Metal publication has a Dutch poem and Spanish interiorart. There's also a title that's probably to be deleted. Thanks, --Willem 13:59, 27 December 2019 (EST)

The problem is that the pub has no date given. I have changed the publication date to match the Dutch version of the book, June 2003. I purchased the book in early September 2004 at the same time as Prohibited and Prohibited II, and both of those were later printings, but this pub was apparently first printing. So I'm not sure if it was first published in English at the same time as the Dutch edition, or later, even in 2004. And the poem is in English, of course, and I've made it a variant of the Dutch poem. I left the artwork as Spanish because Royo is Spanish, but artwork hardly has a language. Anyhow, feel free to make whatever changes you feel warranted. Bob 18:19, 27 December 2019 (EST)
We do not treat art differently from other variants though so I would add an English art record here and variant to the Spanish original if it is in the DB. This way we can see where (and it what languages) a certain title is used at a glance as opposed to needing to go down into the list of pubs :) Same rule we follow for covers. Yes, the art itself does not have a language but our record does - and not hiding information we have is a good thing. Just my 2 cents. Annie 18:34, 27 December 2019 (EST)
I don't know where the Spanish label on the artwork started; it certainly wasn't with me. There is no Spanish publication by Royo in the data base. I've changed all the artwork to "English" in the three Prohibited books I've verified. Bob 19:59, 27 December 2019 (EST)

Girasol Weird Tales August 1928

Hi Bob - I've made changes to another one of these, which affects your verified reprint. I updated the credit of "The Justice of the Czar" to add Eliot's rank as it appears. I also changed the name of the Brosnatch illustration on page 192 and linked it to the first appearance. I've merged the name of the Rankin illustrations for department headings with their overall title (Folks Used to Believe, Sonnets for the Midnight Hours and Weird Story Reprint). I've also added a letter and an illustration to the original magazine that you may want to import. Lastly, you may want to check the page number for the poem "Une Charogne" which appears on 262. I've been working through an ebook of the original run or Weird Tales so I may encounter more of these. I'll let you know if I do. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:40, 29 December 2019 (EST)

Thanks, Ron. All fixed. Bob 21:40, 29 December 2019 (EST)

Fire & Blood

Hi Bob, my answer here may have slipped your attention. :) --Willem 16:48, 11 January 2020 (EST)


Hi, though the LCCN may be mentioned by US publishers in each and every subsequent edition (even when the title has changed publisher), the number itself is publication-specific -mostly the first US edition, often mentioning binding, date, publisher and nowadays even ISBN. So H. G. Wells books that are now printed in the US may have LCCN codes that point a century or more back, to a (hardcover) edition by a now defunct publisher. If you do feel the need to mention all that is printed on the copyright page, including the LCCN that points to an older edition, then the Notes field should be used with the LCCN-template: double accolades open LCCN|number double accolades close.--Dirk P Broer 09:23, 18 January 2020 (EST)

Sword & Fantasy #1

This interior art record is credited to Roy G. Krenkel, but varianted to a work by Frank Frazetta. Is this a database error? I'm suspicious someone didn't notice it was an interior art credit & varianted it based on the displayed cover. -- JLaTondre (talk) 17:13, 18 January 2020 (EST)

Wow, that's an interesting case. The contents page does credit Krenkel for the front cover, but it's not his work. The artwork is a copy of Frazetta's cover art, but clearly not by Frazetta either. The contents page says the cover design is by Jim Keenan, who very often does artwork related to Robert E. Howard fiction, and I believe it likely he is the artist who copied the Frazetta work. Unlike Krenkel, he was at least alive when the pub was created. My best guess is that the editor just made a mistake in putting Krenkel's name in place, perhaps because he had a different artwork in mind originally. I've corrected the entry and added a note saying the artwork is a copy of Frazetta's cover art. Thank you for finding this one! Bob 14:33, 19 January 2020 (EST)

Thebes of the Hundred Gates ISBN

Hello again, Bob. Re, I think we should remove the ISBN from the listing. There's no ISBN in the book, and there's no source for that ISBN cited in the listing. That ISBN is not recognized by Worldcat, or by the HomeBase app. doesn't find any books using the ISBN. Please let me know if I'm missing something. Thanks. Markwood 16:11, 20 January 2020 (EST)

Apparently, the ISBN was from Locus. The cloth edition notes that Locus gave an ISBN for that edition. I suggest eliminating the ISBN, but acknowledging the Locus information like the cloth edition does. Bob 17:12, 20 January 2020 (EST)

Dobson UK edition of World of Null-A

Hi, Bob. I've also PV'd, and would like to update the pub notes to include (1) copyright page says, "first published in Great Britain in 1969", (2) Worldcat says published in 1969, and (3) says published in January 1970. Question for you: change ISFDB pub date field to 1969, or leave it 1970? I'm not familiar with, so don't know why we'd give it precedence over copyright page and Worldcat. Thanks in advance for your guidance. Markwood 10:51, 25 January 2020 (EST)

I think I believe the January date, that the publisher tried to get it out in December, but missed. In any case, I think the notes should reflect the dating problem. By the way, I presume Bluesman entered the pub originally and he is one of the owners of the source. And I can't even verify the price, since my copy is price-clipped. Bob 13:18, 25 January 2020 (EST)

Girasol Weird Tales, July 1933

Hi Bob. I deleted this excerpt and its associated illustration from the July, 1933 issue of Weird Tales. I don't know if I was the one who originally added it, or someone else. However, on a second look, it's a house ad for the story in Magic Carpet and as an advertisement, it shouldn't really be indexed. The same titles appear in the Girasol facsimile of the issue, so should probably also be deleted there. In fact, since they appear on the inside back cover of the original issue, I don't think they are even in the facsimile as all the Girasols that I've seen replace the inside covers in favor of their own house ads. Please take a look and delete these from your publication if you feel its appropriate. Also, the titles themselves should be deleted since no other pubs contain them. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:21, 26 January 2020 (EST)

Thanks, Ron, for keeping me in the loop. Fixed. Bob 11:59, 26 January 2020 (EST)

Girasol Weird Tales, Weird Tales, September 1933

I identified J. Allen St. John's signature for the illustration for "Golden Blood" and updated the record. I also added a few letters, decorations and the Coming Next Month essay to the original issue. You may want to import these into your Girasol reprint. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:50, 26 January 2020 (EST)

Fixed. Thanks! Bob 12:02, 26 January 2020 (EST)

Bad checksum

You had rejected two of my submissions (4558339 and 4558334) with bad ISBN checksums. These are the ISBNs in the publications, so I was wondering how they get entered - in the ISBN field or just in the notes? I'd documented the ISBN in the notes in one case but had not put it in the Moderator Notes. Would this have helped? ../Doug H 14:49, 30 January 2020 (EST)

Wow, it's too bad that the ISBNs in the pubs are incorrect. What I suggest you do when you see a bad checksum is use the method shown here to calculate the correct checksum, then enter the ISBN with that value, and put the claimed ISBN in the notes. The problem with this is that it may be that one of the other digits in the claimed ISBN is the error, so I suggest you can also enter the given and new ISBNs on some site (maybe Amazon or to see if either matches the pub with the ISBN. An alternative, of course, is just to leave the ISBN space blank. But I have to say that in the two cases you cite, it looks suspiciously like the original ISBNs entered are the correct ones and that the checksum digit was just poorly printed (a 5 looked like a 9, and a 7 looked like a 2). Bob 16:39, 30 January 2020 (EST)
Just to deal with the final point, the misprint/misreading would have to have been at the publishers as this is the way they printed the ISBN (see here. If this is indeed the best way to deal with the problem (i.e. checking and noting), could the Help entry on ISBNs be updated to include this?. ../Doug H 11:28, 1 February 2020 (EST)
Doug, I understand and appreciate your suggestion. The problem is that if all possible contingencies appeared in the Help or New Pub entries, they would become disturbingly long. I recently asked about when it was appropriate to use "The Editors of magazine name" as the author rather than "uncredited". The former is most frequently used for non-genre magazines, but when is it appropriate for genre magazines? In my experience it usually occurs with non-U.S. magazines, where apparently there are multiple editors, but each issue may have only one of them doing the editing. Anyhow, this is another case where the moderator has to make a decision without clear instruction. So we just have to live with imperfection, and try to pass on ideas that may help to editors like you. Bob 23:49, 1 February 2020 (EST)
I'll beg to differ on this one. Your example is policy, what should one do "if ...". My suggestion is how to respond to a software warning message (bad checksum) that will result in a submission being rejected or additional work for (likely) a moderator to track down the cause. This would probably fit well in the section on interpreting the submission screen - if we had one. ../Doug H 12:23, 3 February 2020 (EST)
Doug, I too would like to live in a perfect world. But my admittedly limited experience has been that it's really difficult to get enough moderators interested to make additions to the instructions. So I wanted to be honest with the editor that sometimes the instructions are not complete and that we overworked monitors just have to help them work some problems out. Bob 13:56, 3 February 2020 (EST)
Is the Help section an area where an editor can spend some effort, rather than just moderators? Would specific text/pages best be done by changing and seeking forgiveness (or blessing) or raised modifications individually in the Rules and Standards section? (the latter seems awkward for new sections and providing context. ../Doug H 14:44, 3 February 2020 (EST)
Yes, the help can be edited by anyone, not just moderators. A couple of suggestions, however, to make the process smoother if you are making more than minor tweaks (grammar, etc.): 1) Use the edit summary box to describe the change; and 2) post an explanatory message at the ISFDB:Community Portal for major edits. That way people will know what you are doing and can chime in if there are better word choices, etc. And please do consider making help edits. The help could definitely be better, but it's not enjoyable work for most and sometimes those of us who've been around for awhile don't notice the holes anymore. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:50, 3 February 2020 (EST)
Bob, please consider, in cases like this, accepting the edits and than making the corrections (moving the ISBN to note field for these) vs. rejecting. When you reject, the editor looses all the other work they put into the edit which can be discouraging / frustrating. Making the edit post approval is much easier than entering the whole contents over again. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:50, 3 February 2020 (EST)
I've done that a number of times. I think what bothered me in these particular cases was the the correct ISBN was already in place and was changed by the editor to one with a bad checksum. I didn't realize at the time that the bad checksum was in the pub itself. If the editor had been entering a new pub, I probably would have handled the situation differently because in that case he would have had to enter all of the data again. Live and learn. Bob 21:51, 3 February 2020 (EST)

Girasol Weird Tales, Weird Tales, October 1933

Hi Bob - I deleted the contents and re-imported them from the original issue for the Girasol reprint of the October 1933 issue of Weird Tales. This was to pick up a few illustrations and letters that were missing and to pick up the ordering within pages. I do have a question as to the date of the reprint. You have it as 2005-11-00 with a note that it is from your records. However, the internet archive has this issue offered for sale on their June 26, 2005 capture of Girasol's website. The next earliest capture of this page, April 7, does not list this reprint. Unfortunately, given those two dates, we can't really pinpoint the month that the reprint was published (April, May or June), but it certainly was before November. I think we should probably remove the month from the date and add a note as to the range. What do you think? Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 08:33, 1 February 2020 (EST)

Excellent idea. The date I used was the date I purchased the 'zine, so was meant to give a "no later than" indication of publication. Thanks for taking care of updating this issue. Bob 23:41, 1 February 2020 (EST)

Clarke County, Space - Allen Steele

Hello Bob, with regard to my copy of this pb edition (not PVd yet), and noting this conversation with SFJuggler, could I ask you to please check your copy of the Hardy volume here to see if there's any reference to this cover art in it? Many thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 12:01, 2 February 2020 (EST)

Boy, it sure looks Hardyesque, but there is no indication of the artwork in Hardyware. I enjoyed reviewing the book anyhow. Bob 15:32, 2 February 2020 (EST)
Thanks Bob, really appreciate you looking :) Kev. BanjoKev 15:43, 2 February 2020 (EST)

Girasol Weird Tales, Weird Tales, February 1935

Hi Bob For this reprint, I merged the Brosnatch heading for "The Eyrie" with the shared title record where it is re-used. I also added subtitles to the letters. Lastly, I added a few decoration illustrations to the orginal issue. You may want to do an import from there to pick up the decorations. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 20:05, 2 February 2020 (EST)

Thanks, Ron. Import complete. Bob 21:20, 2 February 2020 (EST)
Another one, March 1935. I added some letters to this. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:13, 2 February 2020 (EST)
Got it! Thanks again. Bob 11:19, 3 February 2020 (EST)
And another one. I updated the letters to add the subtitles in this issue which affects your reprint. I also added letters and illustrations. You'll want to delete the Derleth story before you import. It has the wrong form of his name as he was using his middle initial then. You'll also want to check the page number for the illustration for "Shadows in Zamboula" which I believe is on page 531. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:25, 8 February 2020 (EST)
All fixed. Thank you once more! Bob 20:46, 8 February 2020 (EST)

Afterward to Eutopia - Poul Anderson

Hi Bob, I noticed your PV in the pub for this title [8] and I think you're right about it being a probable misspelling. If you've a mind to, there's a title here now if you want to variant to it.

It starts/finishes like this: Readers ought to know that writers are not responsible......."Long live freedom and damn the ideologies." Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 14:29, 14 February 2020 (EST)

No question, that's the same essay. Thank you for finding this one! Bob 16:07, 14 February 2020 (EST)

Vivenna n the D'Denir Garden by Magali Villaneuve

Hi, about Vivenna n the D'Denir Garden by Magali Villaneuve, could that perhaps be a typo fore Vivenna in the D'Denir Garden by Magali Villeneuve?--Dirk P Broer 20:10, 21 February 2020 (EST)

Yes, it is. Thanks for catching this one. Fixed. Bob 23:11, 21 February 2020 (EST)

The Rest of the Robots - Asimov

Hi Bob, with regard to your PV here, you might find the contents of this recent addition helpful :) Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 21:40, 25 February 2020 (EST)

Kev, I added a note to the pub indicating the three sections of the book. Then I added a note to my PVed pub noting the essays preceding the stories. I think this is a better way to describe the nature of the pub's construction than listing the essays as separate content, giving less emphasis to essays and more to the stories themselves. The way you have handled the essays hides the explanation for the first story (hidden in the "Introduction"), and IMHO overemphasizes the essays. The other mild criticism I have for your entry is that the part of your notes that outline the copyright for the stories is not needed, since each story has the first appearance under it's individual entry. But if you feel that duplication is important, by all means, leave it in. But in any case, thank you for bringing this feature up. Bob 10:43, 26 February 2020 (EST)
Neat updates Bob, especially to the title record - a very good framework. With regard to the stories' copyright, in general I do note this info, without making a judgement about duplication elsewhere, to give 'hard' facts to any possible future editor trying to chase down stuff which may be unavailable elsewhere; as someone once said "Just the facts, Ma'am" :) I guess it's down to editorial style in the end, but I appreciate your comments. Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 11:14, 26 February 2020 (EST)

OAK Leaves

I credited the cover of Oak Leaves v1n3 to Virgil Finlay, as it's credited as the story header in the magazine original. MOHearn 09:13, 3 March 2020 (EST)

Thanks for your ambition! Much appreciated. Bob 16:49, 3 March 2020 (EST)

Girasol Weird Tales, Weird Tales, August-September 1936

I'm getting back to this project after a few weeks away. In any case, I added some missing letters from the August-September 1936 issue of Weird Tales which you may want to import to the Girasol reprint. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:10, 7 March 2020 (EST)

Thanks once again. Done. Bob 09:39, 7 March 2020 (EST)

Brian Murphy

Hi Bob,

Can you look at this page. I just added a non-fiction book from another Brian Murphy (born 1973 so the 1983 stuff is not his) and I have a strong suspicion that all these Howard essays and the review at the bottom belong to him and not to the guy who wrote about Lewis in the 80s... Or possibly yet another Brian Murphy - but considering this boo, I think we can connect. What do you think? Anything in any of those verified magazines/books about Brian Murphy? There may be even a third one hiding in there (the work in the late 90s) but who knows...Annie 20:31, 26 March 2020 (EDT)

And as soon as I wrote all that, I figured it out on the back cover of the new book- the guy with the book is indeed the author of all those Howard essays is the magazines. Do you mind if I move them over? Annie 20:33, 26 March 2020 (EDT)
Of course not. Good catch! Bob 23:11, 26 March 2020 (EDT)
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