User talk:Rtrace


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If you're writing to inform me that you've either added a COVER IMAGE or NOTES to any of my VERIFIED PUBS, please click HERE and add it to the bottom of the list. A link to the pub record would be appreciated. Once the pub has been reviewed, I'll remove your note from the list. Thanks. Ron (Rtrace)


for older discussions.


The Man in the High Castle - PKD

Hi Ron, just checking through the Masterworks listing and noticed yours here. Should the full publisher name be Gollancz / Orion? Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 16:56, 3 January 2020 (EST)

And similarly, should this be Millennium / Orion -or- Millenium / Gollancz? Kev. BanjoKev 17:01, 3 January 2020 (EST)

Corrected both to "Gollancz / Orion" matching the book. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 14:53, 4 January 2020 (EST)

Margaret Dominic vs Margaret Dominick

Hi, here I have changed Margaret Dominic to Margaret Dominick in The Science Fiction Fanzine Reader: Focal Points 1930-1960, based upon the TOC of Science Fantasy Bulletin, August 1952 of found at We are now left with Vega, June 1952 (cover), could you please check?--Dirk P Broer 18:51, 24 January 2020 (EST)

Update: We also have her as DEA.--Dirk P Broer 18:55, 24 January 2020 (EST)
The Ortiz book doesn't have a credit for those illustrations. I got the credit for the Vega cover from where they have the incorrect name on their index page for that issue. In any case, given the lack of credit for the reprint, I went with the canonical name, which I decided should be DEA. In fact, the TOC from from the SFB issue, has the credit as "DEA (M. Dominick)", so making DEA canonical seems appropriate. In any case, I've corrected the records and made the variant relationship. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 08:47, 25 January 2020 (EST)

Passport to Jupiter in January 1951 Startling Stories

Hi, Ron. Since you're PV of January 1951 Startling Stories, thought I'd throw this to you for consideration. The Raymond Gallun title 'Passport to Jupiter (Complete Novel' (1951), which appears in that pulp, is currently below a parent title 'Passport to Jupiter' (2006). This seems backward to me. Shouldn't the original title be the parent, and the 2006 title the child? Anyway, your call. Just sayin'. ;) Markwood 17:43, 26 January 2020 (EST)

In cases where a novel was serialized, we reflect the date of the first book publication. This is true even when the serialization is in a single part as with this case. What I do see that is incorrect here, is that the first book publication was 1961 German translation and the canonical title should reflect that date. The reasons for for using the book publication date can be found here. I'll go ahead and change the date to match the translation. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:06, 26 January 2020 (EST)
Great info. Good to know. Thanks! Markwood 09:53, 27 January 2020 (EST)

The Works of the Late Edgar Allan Poe

Hi, Ron. Happy New Year
Concerning this multi-volume collection T1006342, The Works of the Late Edgar Allan Poe published by J. S. Redfield: It appears likely that you are the sole editor of all three publication records. All three 1850, 1853, 1856 now link full interior images online and cite "Information primarily from the Edgar Allan Poe Society of Baltimore." But you are primary verifier for the 1850 and 1853 only.

  • Is this standard ISFDB treatment of single-author Collected Works published in multi volumes: one Collection rather than Series or Publication Series?
That would depend on whether the volumes were published together or separately. In this case, I believe the set was originally published with two volumes issued together. Late as three, and then four.
  • Do you consider it certain, presumably from Poe Society, that we have the first publication dates 1850, 1853, 1856? If so then all of the critical biographical essays in vol 3 need re-date from 1850 to 1853. Perhaps I am missing the significant implication of this title note, "Another collection of Poe's writings, The Literati, published later in 1850 had no mention of this set."
My understanding is that The Literati was published by itself in 1850 and later incorporated into The Works in 1853. The facsimile of the title page of the 1850 edition from the Baltimore Poe society has no mention of the that edition as being part of the Works. Compare with the title page from volume 3 of the 1850 edition. The dates of the contents are from the volume's stand alone printing, for which we do not have a record. In any case, the dates of all these editions are based on the dates of the scans that have been found.
Thanks. I understand the 1850 essay dates. Also, I see now that we do have the standalone 3rd volume, as 1850 The Literati: Some Honest Opinions About Autorial Merits and Demerits P290139, and probably your work. That is easy to miss, as NONFICTION rather than COLLECTION, and with its short Contents list. Crucial "The Literati of New York City" (1846) and "Miscellaneous Reviews" evidently represent book sections containing dozens of essays. ... --2020-02-05
  • Should most if not all vol 3 essay also be "non-genre"? (Some vol 1, vol 2 contents also, I suppose.)
Perhaps. I didn't do any research into the subject of the essays. Feel free to mark any that you think are appropriate.

I don't suggest you change anything now. For one, I will check newspapers perhaps tomorrow --including the Baltimore Sun, if I recall my 1850s and university subscription correctly-- and may find prices as well as dates, or improved information about when these were published, if not "dates".

Now I depart, but I am back here as a regular again, after January immersed elsewhere. --Pwendt|talk 16:23, 2 February 2020 (EST)

Answers inline above. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:05, 2 February 2020 (EST)
... Inline is excellent. Only two tidbits now:
[4] In 1850 newspapers I find no US price. The only UK item found does state "2 vols. post 8vo. cloth, price 15s." but that advertisement of American Literature by John Chapman must be a list of imported books.
[5] Is our 1853 date 1853-00-10 a mistake for 1853-00-00 or for 1853-10-00? Searching the linked Poe Society articles for 'October', I don't find that a crucial month in 1853.
(to be continued after reading at --Pwendt|talk 20:50, 5 February 2020 (EST)

An Annotated Bibliography of Recursive Science Fiction

Hi Ron, my copy of this pub states its a first printing, with a publication date of October 1990. Locus1 agrees on this, and also states a price of $6.00. I would like to change the publication date and add the price. Can you agree? Thanks, --Willem 08:33, 4 February 2020 (EST)

The printing date on mine agrees with yours. For the price, Locus should be a sufficient source. Please go ahead and make those changes. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:30, 4 February 2020 (EST)
Thanks & updated. --Willem 07:12, 5 February 2020 (EST)

The Moon Hoax

Hi, Ron. I post the first two items also at User talk:Chris J.

  1. Concerning reported 1859 chapbook publication The Moon Hoax (with subtitle, containing novelette with title "Great ... Good Hope", viewed at Internet Archive) P211217, what do Bleiler and Reginald say about this publication and work? Especially concerning its previous publication in 1852 (and not in 1835). Our cited WorldCat record notes only concerning the novelette alone (and under a different title, we know from other sources): "First published in the New York Sun in August and September, 1835, from the supplement to the Edinburgh Journal of Science"--Page [7].
  2. Concerning reported 1852 chapbook publication The Moon Hoax (no subtitle, containing novelette with the same title) P211213, do you know anything of this work/publication? I guess that it may be inferred by you or Chris J from one of your sources on the 1859 above. From SFE3 list works of Richard Adams Locke (which does not imply credited), here is the only 1852 listing (quote in full): The Celebrated "Moon Story", its Origin and Incidents; with a Memoir of the Author, and an Appendix, Containing, I: An Authentic Description of the Moon; II: A New Theory of the Lunar Surface, in Relation to That of the Earth (New York: Bunnell and Price, 1852) [anth: contains original text plus additional material: compiled by William N Griggs: hb/]
  3. Concerning our reported 1835-08 INTERIORART 'The Moon Hoax' T1769686, what does your verified Relapse, #21, Spring 2013 say about where it was published in 1835, including caption or title with/without quotation marks?

Thanks in advance. --Pwendt|talk 21:59, 7 February 2020 (EST)

There's nothing about the 1852 edition in Bleiler. However, Reginald does list it and we had a few errors in our record (title, which matches what you found in SFE3 and format), which I've corrected. Feel free to update the contents if you can track down how the story and other content may be titled. I left William N. Griggs in the title as that's how Reginald lists it.
I think I need to change the date of the illustration in Relapse. The illustration is of either the endpapers or a fold out frontispiece and the title page of a translation of the story into Welsh. Unfortunately, it's a bit small to read the subtitle, publisher and date. The main title is "Lleuad" Perhaps you can track that down. In any case, the caption is clearly not the original title of the illustration, so I'll move the date to 2013 and add a note as to the source.
"Lleuad" is the Welsh word for moon, per Wiktionary.
Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 15:21, 8 February 2020 (EST)
I will get back to this soon now.
Does Bleiler's p477 ISFDB-Review of "The Moon Hoax" cover any particular publication of Richard Adams Locke's essay/story, and perhaps with ancillary contents, or is it a standalone review of the essay/story using that ("The Moon Hoax") as a general description. --Pwendt|talk 20:01, 15 February 2020 (EST)

Second-Stage Lensmen - Doc Smith

Hi Ron, if you didn't post this [1], could you have a look to confirm your cover and let me know. I'll upload my scan if yours matches my description. Thank, Kev. BanjoKev 18:56, 9 February 2020 (EST)

The cover of mine lists the title as Second Stage Lensmen. It differs from the title page in that it lacks the hyphen. Please go ahead and upload your scan. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:41, 10 February 2020 (EST)
Done. Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 21:34, 10 February 2020 (EST)

Dangerous Visions - Harlan Ellison

Hi Ron, I've updated the publisher to your PV here while I was submitting this printing. Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 04:04, 13 February 2020 (EST)

And amended your page 320 to 321. Kev. BanjoKev 14:28, 13 February 2020 (EST)

Introduction (Land of the Great Horses) - Harlan Ellison

Hi Ron, merged your page 134 essay dated 2019-04-04 with earlier title dated 1967-10-00. Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 09:48, 14 February 2020 (EST)

Hanes y Lleuad

Ron, Quickly I find some text and some images by search for this Welsh language title (Inhabitants of the Moon, evidently), whose 1836/1838/other date is uncertain. It's known to be published in Llanrwst, no date. I will search later for some mention of the publication or translation in 1830s UK newspapers.

Do you recognize this image (or the two "other versions" thumbnails, for that matter)?

The Inhabitants of the Moon, 1836, Welsh edition - at Wikimedia as frontispiece of Hanes y Lleuad

Those three are image files uploaded to Wikimedia, with x-ref each other. Used at Wikipedia only in the RUssian edition.

Feel free to "click" or ignore some other links I will pursue tomorrow [2], [3], [4], [5] --Pwendt|talk 20:24, 15 February 2020 (EST)

It is the same image as this image except that the one in Relapse also includes the title page (Alas too small to read details). If you find enough data to enter the translation, please go ahead and make that image a variant of the frontispiece. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:06, 29 February 2020 (EST)

Ace Fitzroy editions of Jules Verne

I've updated the Publisher Series The Fitzroy Edition of Jules Verne by amalgamating the information from the wiki page. Because this has been set up as a publisher series, the Ace editions don't quite fit, so I have taken the liberty of modifying these publications to refer to a new series The Fitzroy Edition of Jules Verne (Ace), which I will make a dependant of the original series. By the way, congrats on being the only one to have all 10 in the series. ../Doug H 15:38, 18 February 2020 (EST)

Bill Bleackbeard vs Bill Blackbeard

Hi, is Bill Bleackbeard of the San Francisco Academy of Comic Art, Had This to Say ... really by Bill Bleackbeard? It is just that the San Francisco Academy of Comic Art pops up here...--Dirk P Broer 18:38, 22 February 2020 (EST)

That's how the credit reads. I'm certain it's the same person and I'll make a variant. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:10, 29 February 2020 (EST)

Jues Verne cover image

I ran across an image you had uploaded for La Chasse au meteore. The image is of a different publication - an omnibus which also includes Le pilote du Danube (also shown on the cover). I've just submitted the new publication request but have a similar image I'd planned to use. I don't know what you want to do about this one. ../Doug H 12:02, 25 February 2020 (EST)

I think I've found the correct scan and have replaced the prior one. Thanks for finding this. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:22, 29 February 2020 (EST)

The Weird Fiction Review, Fall 2012

Regarding The Weird Fiction Review, Fall 2012: In addition to the self-titled cover, this pub has a second cover art credit of Fuseli's The Nightmare. From the cover image and the publication notes, this does not appear to be correct? The pub contains an essay titled "Henry Fuseli's The Nightmare". Was the cover record supposed to have been an interior art record? -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:35, 5 March 2020 (EST)

Someone else must have changed that. When I changed the title record back to interior art, it appeared in the publication record with the correct page number. I've also reverted the date to the date of the appearance under that title as interior art (i.e. the date of the magazine). I suspect what happened, is that someone converted the interior art to coverart per the conclusions in this discussion which suggested that a parent title can be created for artwork such as this using the artist's title (The Nightmare) and the title type of the original appearance in a genre publication (1968 cover for Three Gothic Novels) and the date of production. I'm not certain that the discussion really reached a consensus, but I've gone ahead and made a new parent title record using those rules. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:59, 5 March 2020 (EST)

Munro's Seaside Library

It appears I've been working at cross-purposes in how these get recorded. You (an assumption based on OCLC verification) have them as SERIAL in a MAGAZINE series, and I've been putting them in as NOVEL in a publication series. I'm happy to change my entries, but as a non-moderator, what approach for converting them would you suggest? I'm thinking simply re-entering them as SERIALS and deleting the originals. Splitting the NOVELs out from the TITLES and converting TITLES to SERIALS and PUBS to MAGAZINES with name changes (adding parts/complete novel) sounds more complicated. ../Doug H 16:37, 7 March 2020 (EST)

I added these when working through the various Bleiler's SF the Early Years and I do think that dime novels were essentially periodicals and MAGAZINES are a better fit. Converting them is a little tricky, but for many of these I think you can do most of it with a single edit. You can edit the publication and change it's type to a MAGAZINE. You would also change the contained NOVEL into a SERIAL. Lastly, you would need to add an EDITOR record to the content (e.g. [6]). After that is approved, you would need to either edit the EDITOR record to add the series (The Seaside Library) and mark the non-genre flag; or, if the EDITOR record already exists for that year, merge it with the existing ones. This will work for those titles where the translation isn't in another publication. For those others, you won't be able to convert the NOVEL to a SERIAL. Instead you'll need to add a new SERIAL record and, as a separate edit, remove the existing NOVEL record from the publication. After that you'd have the variant the SERIAL record to the canonical NOVEL. Hope this helps, but feel free to ask further if I've not explained well enough. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:54, 8 March 2020 (EDT)
I've got a list of Jules Verne novels published in the Seaside Library to add from scratch. I think I'll just put my novels in with them so I've only one process to manage. For existing years, it seems to be an Add Mag, Edit Title, Make this Title a Variant - plus updating the wiki page of translations. ../Doug H 11:07, 8 March 2020 (EDT)

(unindent) I notice from the Issue Grid that most of the issues are bedsheet, while I have been entering them as quarto. The definitions have them the same size and differing only in binding - bedsheet being side stapled and quarto as saddle stapled. Looking closely at the middle of Hector Servadac I can see two holes and a thread binding in a saddle style. I plan to continue using quarto as the binding. Let me know if you disagree, and what you'd like to do about the existing bedsheet if you agree. ../Doug H 11:29, 10 March 2020 (EDT)

For those issues that are indicated as bedsheet, I think it is the appropriate choice. While our definition of quarto does indicate saddle-stapled, bedsheet has indication as to how the magazine is bound. The main difference between the two formats is that bedsheet is 1/4 of an inch taller than quarto. For those issues that are marked as bedsheet, the OCLC/Worldcat records give a size of 32-33 cm (or 12.5 to 13 inches; with one exception at 17 cm which I believe to be a mistake). Unfortunately Worldcat only gives one dimension which I assume is the height. That would put those issues closer to bedsheet height of 11.25 inches rather than the quarto height of 11. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:22, 15 March 2020 (EDT)

The Chrysalids - Wyndham

Hi Ron, I also have the 19th printing of your PV here. Mine is the same in every detail except for the UK price - at 40p. Could you please check yours to make sure the extant 60p is not a typo? Another little detail you might check.... in my copy there's a closing bracket missing on the copyright page in the reprint dates: "1970 (twice" Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 01:01, 11 March 2020 (EDT)

Mine also is 40p. Since the other verifier has been inactive for several months, I've gone ahead and changed it. Thanks for catching this. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:25, 15 March 2020 (EDT)

A. Hoppin, The Finishing School

Ron, For illustrations of "The Finishing School" in this 1881 anthology P552267 you may wish to credit Augustus Hoppin, now the canonical name, rather than A. Hoppin, a step that will eliminate former canonical name A. Hoppin from the database. Credit as Augustus Hoppin is explicit elsewhere (altho not in Arabian Days), whereas you credit "A. Hoppin" from signatures that vary as "A. Hoppin", "Hoppin", "H", and missing I submitted delete of other A. Hoppin titles. I leave "The Finishing School" for you to credit as Augustus instead or to make them variants. --Pwendt|talk 16:09, 13 March 2020 (EDT)

I've merged the authors. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:28, 15 March 2020 (EDT)

The Word for World Is Forest - Le Guin

Hi Ron, I've changed the date in your PV here from 2015-00-00 to 'date unknown', to match the pub notes. [7]. Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 16:23, 15 March 2020 (EDT)

I've rejected your edit. While the printing is undated, the first printing was 2015 and my copy was purchased in 2015 (see the last note). Thus we can assume a 2015 date though we can't identify the month and day. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 16:32, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
Thanks, I'd guessed there was a good reason for you to have that date - elementary :: Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 17:00, 15 March 2020 (EDT)


Hi, your verified copy of The Historian's Wizard of Oz: Reading L. Frank Baum's Classic as a Political and Monetary Allegory, entered as NONFICTION, features here by virtue of having as contents a NOVEL, a piece of SHORT FICTION and one ESSAY.--Dirk P Broer 05:35, 17 March 2020 (EDT)

I responded on the Community Portal. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 12:30, 21 March 2020 (EDT)

The Forever War - Haldeman

Hi Ron, just to let you know that I'm in the process of submitting my 7th (and 8th) printing of this which will push your cover art date back to 2002 when the Title page date changes here. Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 22:13, 14 April 2020 (EDT)

Jules Verne translations

I have been documenting the various translations of Jules Verne's works and trying to identify a piece of text from each translation so editors can position their publications under the correct title record. You are on record as a primary verifier for one or more publications for which I am looking for text or which are placed under a generic translation title. I would be grateful if you could assist in this by checking your copies, as listed below, and providing the initial text for missing translations or an indication of the translation for those unspecified. These are listed on the Jules Verne Translations wiki. Thank you. ../Doug H 15:13, 18 April 2020 (EDT)

I saw the note about the original appearance of the translation as appearing in the February 1889 issue of The Forum. I found a scan and gone ahead and added that magazine and imported the title. It matches the translation that appears in The Arkham Sampler and begins: "Little thought hey seem to think of it, the people of this twenty-ninth century live continually in fairyland."
The text matches that of the translation attributed to Towle alone on the wiki page. I would have merged it with this title, but the title record has no translator attribution. I'll leave it to you to determine if that other record is actually the Towle translation. I've also added a link to scan of the magazine, in case you want to compare further.
I've submitted an update of the title to Dr. Ox’s Experiment (singular). I'll work out the rest once that's done. ../Doug H 15:48, 28 April 2020 (EDT)
This matches the text of the 1887 anonymous translation published by Sampson Low. I've added notes to both parts of the serial and updated the wiki. There already was a link to a scan which I've moved to the dedicated link field.
This matches the text of the 1911 Horne translation. I've added notes to both parts of the serial and updated the wiki. I'va also added a link to a scan.
Part 1 of the serial matches that of the 1874 anonymous translation published by Routledge. The second part of the serial begins: "Melville Sound, though perfectly navigable, was not free from ice. I'm not certain whether the serial is some or all of the parent novel and I'll leave it up to you as to how to annotate the records.
This is a strange one. Captain Hatteras was the original in two parts, but ISFDB has put the second part (Field of Ice) separate from this title, which encompasses both the first part (English at the North Pole) and combinations. This serial is of only the first part and I've submitted updates for the title notes. FYI - in the wiki, I've only mentioned and linked to the first part of any serializations with the annotation of (Serialized). ../Doug H 16:10, 28 April 2020 (EDT)
Matches the text of the Frewer translation. I've added a link to a scan of the issue containing part 1. I've updated the notes and the wiki page.
The text matches the 1874 Towle translation except for the city name, which is missing the final e ("Frankfort-on-the-Main"). I have added a scan and have not split and merged the title.
Have submitted the substitution of the correct translation for the generic one in the publication. ../Doug H 16:23, 28 April 2020 (EDT)
Responses inline above. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:51, 19 April 2020 (EDT)
No, thank you very much. Especially for the links ../Doug H 16:23, 28 April 2020 (EDT)

The Mystery of Choice

Hi, Ron. You verified the 1st ed. of this collection P44474 as 1897-00-00. After newspaper search I suggest to add 1897-10-15 and $1.25, from source I would note thus:

  • Publication date and price from publisher advertisement "Published To-Day.", NY Times 1897-10-15 p7, as "16mo. Cloth. $1.25."

--Pwendt|talk 18:00, 18 April 2020 (EDT)

That's fine. Please proceed. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:51, 19 April 2020 (EDT)

When the Sleeper Awakes

Hi, Ron. See novel When the Sleeper Wakes T8970.

Does Bleiler report our spelling "When the Sleeper Awakes [sic]" for the 18-part UK serial in The Graphic 1899? It is indexed thus in Victorian Fiction Research Guides (search "59 " for that listing, with all 18 page spans). Both spellings appear in some January 1899 notices. But it is "Wakes" in the simultaneous US Harper's Weekly serial. And it is advertised as "Wakes", serial to begin next week, in The Graphic 1898-12-31 (via ProQuest Historical Newspapers).
[Unfortunately, at ProQuest I get no hits for this work in The Graphic 1899. British Newspaper Archive reports 396 weekly issues for 1890-1899 but none at all for 1899 BNA search.] --Pwendt|talk 19:24, 24 April 2020 (EDT)

Sorry. Neither Gernsback or Early Years give the title of the appearance in The Graphic. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:11, 25 April 2020 (EDT)

Tales of Space and Time

(second new item in one session)

Concerning the 1st UK ed. of this collection P34356
Does Bleiler report or imply that publication date 1899 is in the book? (Our source for 1899 may be Reginald or Tuck, via Bluesman, if Bleiler is silent or you overlooked a report as 1900.) I don't believe there is a Harper edition dated 1899. Our cited WorldCat record reports 1900 and the 1900-dated Harper edition is available full view at HDL; also transcribed as Gutenberg #27365 P333067. --Pwendt|talk 19:27, 24 April 2020 (EDT)

Bleiler, Tuck and Reginald all give an 1899 date for the Harper publication. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:14, 25 April 2020 (EDT)

The Three Laws and the Golden Rule

(third new item in one session) Concerning the collection T1087646

Does Bleiler report 1898 publication for this one of four McClure's and Metropolitan collections of Morgan Robertson stories? (Contento does [8]. And SFE3 does.) Our cited WorldCat record reports (c)1898, but that is a mis-interpretation of the title leaf (at HathiTrust). Namely, the last 4 of 11 stories were published in 1898 collection Spun-Yarn Sea Stories. The same list gives 1900 copyright date for one of the first 7 stories, "The Honeymoon Ship". No dates for the others.

The 1898 edition is spurious. McClure's and Metropolitan Magazine collaborated in 1914 to publish a 4-volume set of Morgan Robertson stories [9]. Or so they say in 1915 promotions (separately) of the 4 volumes. (The gist of both adverts: It's all for the good of Robertson's poor widow, so please help!) I haven't yet noted that in any of the four 1914 publication records, nor for the joint-publisher.

Last week I submitted TitleUpdate for most of the stories in this Three Laws collection (as for the other 3 vols), including four magazine publications with 1900s dates. Those four submissions were rejected (for instance) because we have the 1898 collection. All four of the stories and publications 1908 to 1914 are listed in The FictionMags Index, but it's the title leaf of the book that identifies the 1908 to 1914 magazines as the first publishers. (FYI, those are 4 consecutive "My Rejected Edits".)

I hope to delete the spurious 1898 ed. The open question is what must be said about Bleiler in the 1914 publication record. (And you may wish to Secondary Verify that one.)

I hope to re-date as 0000 the McKinlay, Stone & Mackenzie ed. now booked as 1900. Our cited WorldCat record reports "19--", or 20th century; so again the only open question is what to say about Bleiler. Does Bleiler Early Years report "1900"? (MS&M appears to be a publisher of "New Editions" (old works). The earliest hit in recent search ("mckinlay, stone") of 1899-1919 newspapers is 1912.) --Pwendt|talk 19:54, 24 April 2020 (EDT)

My Bleiler verification of the 1899 McClure edition appears to have been a mistake and I've removed it. Bleiler (Early Years) only notes the McKinlay, Stone & Mackenzie edition and gives it a date of "c. 1900". Bleiler78 gives a bracketed date of 1899 for the US edition. The brackets indicate that the date does not appear in the book, but was found from some other source. Hope this helps. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:30, 25 April 2020 (EDT)

The Secret History of Fantasy

I submitted an OCLC external ID to this record, which you primary-verified: I tried to submit it to your verified list but the record vanished & I could not locate it, so I'm putting it here. Mike 08:04, 25 April 2020 (EDT)

Green Tea

In Green Tea, should the last work (Exterior Visions: Assessments of "Green Tea" by Le Fanu's Contemporaries) be an essay instead of fiction? -- JLaTondre (talk) 10:37, 26 April 2020 (EDT)

Yes. Corrected. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:38, 26 April 2020 (EDT)

The Word for World Is Forest - Le Guin

Hi Ron, I've just put up a cover scan that might fit yours as well. The pubnote about price might also be useful to you. Thanks, Kev. BanjoKev 10:16, 3 May 2020 (EDT)

Astounding Science Fiction, June 1956

Dave Langford is reporting that the review of "Stories" by "И. Ефремов" on pp. 147-150 of your verified Astounding Science Fiction, June 1956 is by Algis Budrys as opposed to P. Schuyler Miller. The Internet Archive agrees. (Other primary verifiers have been notified.) Ahasuerus 06:54, 8 May 2020 (EDT)

Since you are the only active primary verifier at the moment, I am wondering if you have had a chance to consult your copy. If it's currently inaccessible, do you mind if I update the publication record based on the Internet Archive scan? TIA! Ahasuerus 09:58, 16 May 2020 (EDT)
Sorry, I hadn't realized that you were looking for a response. I would have gone to the scan myself rather than tracking down the box that that magazine is in and I thought you were just informing me that you were changing it. I've updated the review. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:29, 16 May 2020 (EDT)
Great, thanks! Ahasuerus 13:55, 16 May 2020 (EDT)

ESSAY vs SHORTFICTION in The Dark Brotherhood and Other Pieces

Hi Ron. Is The Cancer of Superstition in your PV really a short story, or would this be an error ? I've got here a French translation labeled "ESSAY”, which the context in the English pub seems to imply. TIA for checking ! Linguist 12:34, 8 May 2020 (EDT).

I think that SHORTFICTION is appropriate. While this does include introductory notes, the piece is a combination of an outline and some brief sections of an uncompleted novel commissioned by Harry Houdini to be ghost written by Eddy and Lovecraft. This is also how Bleiler describes it in his review. Given that, I don't think short story is appropriate and I'll remove the length. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 11:01, 9 May 2020 (EDT)
OK, thanks for checking ! Linguist 15:05, 9 May 2020 (EDT).

Le Petit Prince

Your verified just got converted from Novel to chapbook (14,000 words in this story). Annie 14:22, 8 May 2020 (EDT)

The Pall Mall Magazine - 1899

Hi, Ron. We now have six monthly issues of The Pall Mall Magazine during 1899 T1325384.

  1. 1899 is the one year for which we have "Lord Frederick Hamilton" named as Editor. As editor he is Lord Frederic Hamilton, no 'k'. (Not a mistake: his LC canonical name, with usage note. Frederick is appropriate canonical name here, from the 1897 story credit.)
  2. We have 1899 June to October publications for the 5-part serial of H. G. Wells "A Story of the Days to Come" T57474. We have the first four instalments with subtitle "A Story of Days to Come" (no 'the'). That is a mistake. For instance see vol. 19, p. 81 (I checked all). There are four serial titles and about 20 illustration titles.

Last hour I updated some records of Hamilton's short story, and annotated his author record. I leave the magazine to you. --Pwendt|talk 00:16, 10 May 2020 (EDT)

Done. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:59, 10 May 2020 (EDT)

Tales from Super-Science Fiction

Hi -- I noticed you'd primary-verified this, and was wondering if you would be able to do me a favour. I'm working on improving the Wikipedia article on the magazine, here, and I'd like to get a look at Silverberg's introduction. Is there any chance you could scan or photograph the pages of his introduction, and email it to me? Thanks. Mike Christie (talk) 08:55, 11 May 2020 (EDT)

The Surprising Adventures of the Magical Monarch of Mo and His People

You primary-verified this title: I posted OCLC info for it. Mike 22:16, 14 May 2020 (EDT)

Joan and Peter (Wells vols 23/24)

HI, ROn. We have data on the 1924-27? Atlantic Edition Works of H. G. Wells (Unwin; Scribner) entered mainly by BLuesman from CUrrey/Tuck/WorldCat, and your secondary verifications from Bleiler Early Years for these volumes as 1927 (in two publications, Unwin UK and Scribner US):

  • 23. Joan and Peter I: The Story of an Education
  • 24. Joan and Peter II: The Story of a Great Schoolmaster

As I understand it --essentially from two book articles and biography "Frederick William Sanderson" at Wikipedia-- the sense of these two volume titles must be

  • 23. Joan and Peter: The Story of an Education (I)
  • 24. Joan and Peter: The Story of an Education (II) / The Story of a Great Schoolmaster

I am not sure when we should use the slash in the name of the OMNIBUS, or publication, but vol. 24 evidently contains the concluding chapters of novel Joan and Peter, sometimes subtitled The Story of an Education, and the entire biography The Story of a Great Schoolmaster. [1]

Yesterday I revised our title record of the biography T1843884, as Type NONFICTION with title note. The publications remain novels, which I overlooked. [2]

On both points [1][2] there may be errors by Bleiler that we should note here. --Pwendt|talk 10:23, 20 May 2020 (EDT)

Both Bleiler and Currey have entries on The Works of H.G. Wells. They do not go into detail of every volume and specifically neither source has information on these two volumes. I can't find anything about these volumes in Tuck either. I don't know that our software is well suited to things that have been published in this manner. I don't believe that the entire set was published at once, and I don't know if these two volumes were published simultaneously. It could be argued that SERIAL would be a more appropriate type for the two parts of the novel. However, that would mean that volume 23 would be a CHAPBOOK, and volume 24 would probably be a COLLECTION. Also, The Story of a Great Schoolmaster should probably be entered as an ESSAY. Though that would cause problems with linking the title with this publication. You could pose the question at the Help_desk, if you aren't happy with the current title types. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:22, 24 May 2020 (EDT)
Nearly a month later :--( Thanks for you info. I will take this up in some fashion. I don't care much about our Title Type for the volumes in publication series such as this Works of Wells (Chapbook and Collection if the two parts of Joan and Peter are now recognized as Serial parts 1 and 2 of 2, altho that does dispose me to avoid making the latter Serial parts). For the novel Joan and Peter however, this division in two parts follows its original publication in one, and merely fits the need/design of the Works series that its volumes should be roughly uniform in size, for display of the spines on a shelf or for delivery to subscribers by mail. So I believe The Fellowhip of the Ring as a novel, with The Ring Sets Out and The Ring Goes South as two variant novels; regardless of their length, I understand, we don't call the two such parts a novel anything but a novel and a novel. That happens to be the model in place, although by accident, for Joan and Peter. And conveniently, by our treatment of nonfiction contents, volume 24 as a NOVEL remains correct. All that I really need is suitable titles two parts, and explanation in Title Notes. --Pwendt|talk 13:26, 15 June 2020 (EDT)

Ghosts, Castles, and Victims: Studies in Gothic Terror

I added info to this anthology, which you primary verified: Mike 01:03, 25 May 2020 (EDT)

Pulp Vault #2

I added a cover scan to Pulp Vault #2. Bob 18:42, 26 May 2020 (EDT)

More Pulp Vault Scans

I added scans for the covers of Pulp Vaults 8, 10 and 12/13. Bob 16:58, 27 May 2020 (EDT)

Pulp Vault # 14

Looking at the copyright page for Pulp Vault # 14, Deb Fulton is given credit for proofreading, but Tom Roberts (of Black Dog Books) is credited as "co-editor" and contributing to layout and design. Given that Tom is to Black Dog as Doug is to Tattered Pages, shouldn't Tom be credited as the editor, not Deb? Bob 17:15, 27 May 2020 (EDT)

I'm not sure what page you are referring to. My copy states "Editing and Proofreading by Doug Ellis and Deb Fulton" over "Co-editing, layout and design by Tom Roberts" on page 2. They do state it in an odd way, but I take it to mean that Ellis and Fulton are the full editors and that Roberts had a lesser role. We don't ordinarily list sub-editors in the editor field, but you could certainly expand the notes to include Roberts. I'll also note that FictionMags lists only Ellis as editor. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:55, 29 May 2020 (EDT)

Beside the Seasider

Would you please check this edit I'm holding as it impacts your primary verified pub? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:26, 28 May 2020 (EDT)

It's a good edit. Please go ahead and approve. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:37, 29 May 2020 (EDT)

The Spot of Life

Ian Schoenherr has confirmed by email that his father John Schoenherr was the cover artist of The Spot of Life (Ace 1964). Horzel 04:29, 5 June 2020 (EDT)

The Unexpected

This second printing has the same cover art (rotated and in different colours) as The Ghoul Keepers, so the cover artist is John Schoenherr. Horzel 09:10, 8 June 2020 (EDT)

The Works of H. G. Wells and others 1920s series

Hi, ROn. I continue from mid-May #Joan and Peter (Wells vols 23/24)--continue above telling you what i plan to do and here pursuing a side point. Your May 24 reply began thus:
"Both Bleiler and Currey have entries on The Works of H.G. Wells. They do not go into detail of every volume and specifically neither source has information on these two volumes. I can't find anything about these volumes in Tuck either. I don't know that our software is well suited to things that have been published in this manner. I don't believe that the entire set was published at once, and I don't know if these two volumes were published simultaneously."

I do know the series was not published at once, and with more official detail from newspapers in promotional statements such as "Six volumes ready for Christmas!" Also some contemporary reviews and literary notes columns announce or greet particular volumes or pairs. Not only in the 1920s but earlier, such as editions of Kipling in 1900s.

Many library records, however, cover series with dates such as "1924-" or "1924-1927" (in this case) and a single volume may be reported simply Vol. # in such a series. Unfortunately HathiTrust Digital Library, for one (and your favorite sources for digital copies, too, I suppose) does not adequately keep up by releasing full view of 1924-published volumes during 2020, as they routinely do for editions first published in 1924. --Pwendt|talk 13:48, 15 June 2020 (EDT)

Schnorrers and Macmillan

ROn, Have you returned in JUne as a heavy duty general purpose editor here? Or do I see in My Recent Edits your interest in The King of the Schnorrers and in F. Marion Crawford? Are you one who worked years ago to sort Macmillan publishers. (In my mind's eye it's Mhhutchins alone.) Publication by Macmillan and Co. in New York pre-1896 is what brought me here, remarkably. And I hope to complete this, at least for now, on the Ides of June.

I would not have undertaken The King of Schnorrers: Grotesques and Fantasies T1662334 if I had seen at once the number of its title records, with all the stories variants as by I. Zangwill and some of the illustrations also variants. After "completing" a few shortfiction Title records, I noticed, and switched to the parent records. An hour's continuation yesterday induced me not to work at ISFDB for the day.
Today I will revisit all the remaining story parent and variant Titles and complete their alignment with FictionMags Index data. Also complete the story length. I have a tabular record at hand. :--( --Pwendt|talk 14:05, 15 June 2020 (EDT)

Done. All of the SHORTFICTION titles should have Length; with Date and Note as appropriate given (non)listing in The FictionMags Index. That may be all for today. I expect to do the cover illustration but not the whole lot of INTERIORART. --Pwendt|talk 23:25, 15 June 2020 (EDT)
Not an especial interest those items. I just had some time to work on several pending edits. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 21:38, 16 June 2020 (EDT)

Tales of the Masque -- replacement of curated link with "Webpages"

Hi, Ron. I am dismayed to see the 1st ed. Tales of the Masque updated to replace my curated link to the title page with a link to as "Webpages". By Zapp with you as moderator. [10]
Is there any general effort underway to use the new Webpages field by replacing curated links in the Notes? --Pwendt|talk 14:33, 15 June 2020 (EDT)

Anniemod and MagicUnk have replied to my brief own-space notice User talk:Pwendt#Tales of the Masque and I am satisfied on this point, in that I understand the brief answer is Yes. And I may need to change some of my practices, or participate in making policy. So you should consider this resolved. --Pwendt|talk 20:23, 15 June 2020 (EDT)

Kana transliterations

Please see this discussion. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 12:57, 18 June 2020 (EDT)

The Wizard of Oz with Annotations

Ron, I changed this version of The Wizard of Oz from a juvenile novel to nonfiction because of the annotations. The appearance of a novel in a nonfiction pub was flagged in the Cleanup Reports. Bob 13:33, 18 June 2020 (EDT)

I've put it back. That's not going to work as you would then have a NONFICTION as a variant of a NOVEL. Also, you'll have two container NONFICTION titles within a single container. This question came up when the cleanup report was added. See above and here. There have been no further responses since I explained my reasoning back in March. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 13:56, 18 June 2020 (EDT)

Crawford collections, anthology

Hi, Ron. You have approved several pieces of F. Marion Crawford collections cleanup and annotation this week. We have 7-story and 8-story FMC collections and --one of its publications in the queue with Type change COLL => ANTH [11]-- a Crawford siblings anthology that contains the 8 FMC stories. Later I will further consolidate and cross-reference Title annotations.

The 8 stories include "The King's Messenger", where I have inquiry at User talk:Linguist concerning report that it's French-language translation is a poem. Your exchange immediately above makes me wonder, if it is/were a poem in French and prose in English, what do/would we do? I see you are primary verifier of a 1989 very short chapbook edition as an English/original language short story. i don't know it. Do you know whether any would call it a "prose poem"? --Pwendt|talk 12:59, 19 June 2020 (EDT)

On the last point. Now I know it, after reading in Cosmopolitan. To me, nothing invites or enables poetic translation. --Pwendt|talk 17:31, 19 June 2020 (EDT)
There are times when I can spare enough concentration to approve submissions while I'm listening to something else that I'm working on. In these instances, if I see something that is going to require research or a conversation with the submitter, I leave it to either return later when I have more time, or for another moderator to handle. There are a couple of issues with your submission of Uncanny Tales. First off, you may want to bring this up in the community portal. This is absolutely presented as a single author collection. It would be an anthology by a strict application of our standards, but I'm not certain that is how anyone would try to find it. If we are to convert it to an Anthology, I'd have to ask how you determined that Richard Dalby is credited at the editor. I see that he wrote the introduction, but that is different than editing the collection. I also have to take issue with the change to the author credit for Mary's story. I do see the note in the Worldcat record. However, both Locus (through they admit that they haven't examined a copy) and [ the publisher's website] (#31) give the credit as "Mrs. Mary Fraser." I would tend to trust the publisher. Especially Tartarus which has extensive documentation.
I have no opinion on whether "The King's Messenger" is a prose poem. Locus lists it as a short story in their listing of the Tartarus collection. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 12:18, 20 June 2020 (EDT)
This is only a draft. (notes mainly on the 1999 edition) --18:40
For today I leave the 1999 thus: submission on hold, with some notes posted here. Now I'll submit some update of the 2008 hardcover (with image) and its new publication as 2016 Kindle (with Look inside), both of which credit "Von Degen" and "Mrs Hugh Fraser". As COLLECTION by Francis. Having those data at hand may be useful, as reference from Community Portal for instance. --Pwendt
Regarding author credit as Mrs Hugh Fraser, certainly I am influenced partly by expectation of no difference in credits between this and the 2008/2009 Tartarus Press book that appears to contain the same works. The dustjacket (probably), with layout as title page, credits "Von Degen" and "Mrs Hugh Fraser" (images ABEbooks with description; also from Amazon linked at ISFDB).
The online Tartarus Press description does not seem to me a careful one. It implies equally that Von Degen is credited as "Anne Von Degen", overlooked by Locus and libraries. Here is the portion corresponding somehow to the last three of 11 stories. "A Mystery of the Campagna, by Anne Von Degen: A Mystery of the Campagna/ A Shadow on a Wave/ A Were-Wolf of the Campagna, by Mrs Mary Fraser."
That credits the three stories correctly, under interpretation that the book is omnibus of [a] Uncanny Tales by Francis (8 stories listed previously); [b], described in the boldface portion, A Mystery of Campagna by Anne (2-story collection, where the first is its title story); [c] A Were-Wolf of the Campagna by Mary.
Notes. ABEbooks dealer linked above reports the 2008 Uncanny Tales (ISBN 9781905784110 1905784112) as First Edition thus. No ABEbooks dealer (now 4) provides any inside image. Tartarus does not cover it in the online bibliography. Page counts differ.
This is only a draft. --Pwendt 18:40
-Pwendt|talk 14:58, 20 June 2020 (EDT)
Ron, This hour I have submitted second-stage updates (two days later) for the 2008 COLLECTION title T2738100 and its two publications, where we have both cover images, and Amazon provides "Look inside" the 2016 ebook that spans all of Richard Dalby's introduction. Presuming approval, I expect before Wednesday ends to prompt Community Portal on the matter you suggested, classification as COLLECTION or ANTHOLOGY (or even OMNIBUS) in relation to the contents and the marketing.
While I don't believe that the 1999 edition credits "Anne Von Degen" and "Mrs Mary Fraser", as the publisher description calls the sisters (thanks for finding that, and linking it above), I won't be shocked to learn that it does, if ever we do learn. Presenting the 2008 as a new work(Title), so to speak; the "2008/16" copyright on Dalby's introduction; and no mention of the 1999 in the 2016 ebook --those imply some difference important to the publisher.
I don't take for granted that you do any more on this, or mean to imply that you should. The 1999 Title submission may be abandoned. For reference in discussion a rejected submission is as good as pending, as far as I know. I can make clear I'm not complaining about its being rejected.
Tuesday may be a day I have little time here, as Monday has been. Suddenly it's Tuesday here now. Good night. --Pwendt|talk 00:17, 23 June 2020 (EDT)

Out of Their Minds & All the Traps of Earth and Other Stories

Please see this submission and this one. I rejected the first one since it was adding the catalog id to the ISBN vs. the catalog id field, but based on both covers, the ids look correct. Would you please confirm? If so, I will add the id to the first pub and approve the second submission. Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 19:47, 24 June 2020 (EDT)

Those publisher ids match my copies. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 20:53, 24 June 2020 (EDT)

Grantville Gazette VII

Thanks for approving my added cover to this publication. I guess I wasn't very clear as to what I meant in my "note to moderator". The publication that I added the cover to was published in 2006 as an ebook as this record. The title record for the publication contains two other versions of the publication this and this. These two versions should not be included in this title record, as they are versions of the publication with the same name, but in a later section of the list of publications by Eric Flint. Flint's pubs list a section called "1632 Anthologies", and under that is 1) "Ring of Fire Anthologies", 2) "Grantville Gazette Anthologies and Magazines", 3) "Grantville Gazette - "Best of" Reprints". The anthologies in the "Best of" section contain stories that were selected by Flint, et. al. from several of the ebook magazines and then re-published in ebook, hardcover, and paperback. Unfortunately, they used exactly the same name that was the name of a previously published magazine, leading to confusion in the ISFDB. There are notes that say "Not to be confused with" titles that are the same, in some of the magazines and some of the books in the "Best of" section.

So I think the publications referenced above need to be moved (and merged) to the "Best of" section of the list. I have no idea how this is done, and I was hoping a moderator could tackle it. Thanks, Jack Sjmathis 11:04, 28 June 2020 (EDT)

There is a bunch of work that needs to be done with the entire series. First off, it seems that the Wikipedia page as well as the description from this site indicates that this should be considered a magazine rather than a series of anthologies. I'm speaking of the original ebook publications. I've converted this one to a magazine. I also merged the title with the remaining two publications with this title. Unfortunately, this uncovered some duplicate publications, including this one, which you have verified. I'd recommend deleting that publication and moving your verification to this publication. The main difference, aside from the missing content is that the other publication lists Paula Goodlett as co-editor. If that isn't correct, you'll need to work it out with the other verifiers. I'm going to proceed to convert the remaining titles to magazines. This should prevent these titles from getting confused in the future. Thanks and let me know if you have any questions. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 15:39, 28 June 2020 (EDT)
Great! It makes much more sense as a magazine. I didn't realize that was possible. You're correct, the one I verified was the one that was in the right place, but missing Paula and the contents. GlenG spotted that, let me a note asking to fix it and when I told him to go ahead, he fixed the other one (I think - not sure exactly what happened, but that's what tipped me off that it was messed up). I just submitted a deletion for mine. After I did that, I remembered that my cover scan can be deleted also, and I don't know how to do that, so if you can help with that, I'd appreciate it. Jack Sjmathis 21:49, 28 June 2020 (EDT)
Happy to help. Deleting an image is easy, but I'm not certain whether non moderators can do it. On the web page for the image, there is a delete all link. I've taken care of this one and approved your deletion. I've got a few more issues of the magazine to convert and we'll be all done. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 22:13, 28 June 2020 (EDT)

The E.S.P. Worm

Please see this edit I have on hold that impacts your verified pub. Would you please double check? -- JLaTondre (talk) 08:50, 4 July 2020 (EDT)

The edit is correct insofar as there is no middle initial on the title page. However, the title record will need to be unmerged and made into a new variant of the canonical title. I don't know if you want to show the submitter how to do this, or do it yourself or have me do it. Any way is fine. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 10:50, 4 July 2020 (EDT)

Allan Quatermain: Being and Account ...

For Allan Quatermain: Being and Account ..., should that be "Being an Account"? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 18:49, 28 July 2020 (EDT)

Corrected. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 15:50, 29 July 2020 (EDT)

The Left Hand of Darkness

Hi Ron,

Can you look at the last paragraph of the note in your verified. 1978 does not make any sense when we know the next printing is 1972 - it must be 1970 or 1971 for this sentence to make any sense (as noted by one of the editors here. Would you know when Ace started using the numbered ads exactly - 1970 or 1971 (maybe you have a book handy - I do not seem to have any Ace books from the required timeframe)? If not, I will ping a few verifiers with books around both dates to see if we can track it down but figured I can start with you. Thanks in advance! Annie 07:35, 8 August 2020 (EDT)

Hi Annie-
Happy to help. I've verified the statement in Currey. I don't know anything about when Ace began using numbering their ads. However, I was able to find the same numbered ad (7) for their SF Specials line in this book from 1971. We only have 1 Ace printing listed. The books advertised all appear to be from 1970. The other page of ads in the Le Guin is for nonfiction and mostly not in our database. I've looked them up in Worldcat and there are a couple from 1971. My conclusion from all this is that the 1978 date in the notes is spurious. I would guess that the Le Guin is from 1971 based on the ads, but it could also be from 1972. I've certainly seen other better documented cases with multiple printings in the same month. Hope this is helpful. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 08:35, 8 August 2020 (EDT)
Yeah, the 1978 was obviously a typo - unless someone invented time travel just to mess up with us :) I think I will just remove that last line (and leave it as a moderator note just in case someone is interested). If we ever find out what it was supposed to say, we can restore. Thanks for checking! Annie 13:21, 8 August 2020 (EDT)

Submissions that delete valuable information

Hi, Ron! Unfortunately, you approved submissions that deleted the pub. series and valuable information supplied in the notes (here and here), without that you or the editor have checked with the other primary verifier (me). The question of the publication series was resolved in this discussion among the German moderators. I know it's a time where there's much to deal with in the queue, but please try to take an eye (especially with this editor). Thanks, Christian Stonecreek 13:19, 26 August 2020 (EDT)

I do apologize. My thinking was that since the submitter is a primary verifier and given their statement in the notes that there is nothing to indicate the publication series, I took them at their word. I'll keep this in mind when reviewing their future edits. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:12, 26 August 2020 (EDT)

Alastair Reynolds' Slow Bullets - novel or novella?

Hi, you're one of a few currently active editors/mods with a pub of this title PVed.

I notice this title is tagged as a novel, but it was nominated for 3 different awards in novella or short fiction categories. Do you have any thoughts on whether it might be miscategorized? I did borrow the Gollancz hc from my local library a couple of years ago, and my recollection is that whilst the page count was in the novella/novel grey area, the formatting was such (e.g. relatively large print and headers & footers on each page) to make it seem longer than it would be if it had been formatted more like most hc/tp novels.

I did a Wiki search for "bullets" for any previous discussion about this title, but found nothing relevant. I just went to Kobo to see if they had a word count for this title, but annoying their site is down as I type this. I did find this blog post though, which seems to be from the title's editor, and which explicitly mentions cutting a couple of hundred words in order to be unambiguously considered a novella. That said, there's a comment at the bottom of the post querying the claimed count, although I think it's still within the 20% leeway rule that the Hugos use for eligibility.

I'll contact a couple of other PVers with a copypaste of this comment, so apologies if there's already been discussion or a decision made by the time you get to read this. Regards ErsatzCulture 08:50, 29 August 2020 (EDT)

It's a novella. Happily, the Hugo Packet for the year it was nominated included a PDF version of the story, and I still have it. I pasted the text into Word and it originally showed barely over 40,000 words. Since it was close, I deleted the page headings and numbers and ended up with 39,739 words. Still close, but technically a novella. I'll note it on the title record. We can convert the publications to chapbooks, but we should wait until the other verifiers have had a chance to chime in. Also, since the current novel title record has awards attached, we should change that to a novella, as opposed to changing it to a CHAPBOOK. We'd then have to convert each of the publication records adding a new CHAPBOOK title while converting the publication type. Let me know if you need help submitting these edits. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 09:26, 29 August 2020 (EDT)
Thanks for responding. It turned out there was only other one PVer who (a) has been active in the past month and (b) responds to enquiries on their talk page, so I'll wait a few days to see if they have any opinion, and look to convert this to CHAPBOOK/novella after then. ErsatzCulture 14:27, 29 August 2020 (EDT)

Four Possible Typos

Here are four possible database typos:

Would you mind checking and adding notes if original to publications? Thanks. -- JLaTondre (talk) 16:18, 30 August 2020 (EDT)

Fixed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 19:08, 30 August 2020 (EDT)

Alice's Adventures Under Ground


Can you look at your verified where another moderator converted to a collection (and then changed the chapbook TITLE to a collection which messed up every other publication under it... so I reverted it to fix them so now yours is the one messed up). Under our extended Chapbook rules, this should be fine as a chapbook... but if you prefer it as a collection, I will finish the conversion; if not, I will change it back to a chapbook - or you can. Let me know. Annie 01:41, 1 September 2020 (EDT)

A chapbook type is fine and I've fixed the pub record. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:45, 1 September 2020 (EDT)

Oziana 1983

Hello again,

Can you look at this one - is one of the two "The Fate of the Yoops; or, The Yookoohoos of Oz" on page 13 an art piece by any chance? Annie 02:08, 1 September 2020 (EDT)

Fixed. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 06:46, 1 September 2020 (EDT)

Books too far in the future

Hi Ron,

This one should have been rejected even under the usual 90 days rule, let alone now when all schedules are all messed up. I suspect it just slipped but this specific editor adds (or tries to add) a lot of books which are way too far in the future, not adding enough information in them (this one had no ASIN and/or ISBN making it almost unidentifiable and prone to get duplicated later on, source or price...) so just wanted to post a heads up while updating the book to actually become a useful record. :) Annie 18:07, 3 September 2020 (EDT)

Same for this one - this is 5 months out and this one - which is 8 months in the future, this one (at 9 months ahead of publication). I hate rejecting real books but... :) Annie 18:11, 3 September 2020 (EDT)
I am afraid a May 2021 publication with almost no metadata is just not feasible. The reason that ISFDB:Policy limits future pubs to "announced as forthcoming within the next 90 days" is that publishers' plans change all the time.
Prior to the codification of this rule, the ISFDB database had a lot of "vaporware". At one point I spent literally months hunting it down. Once a bad record makes it in, finding it is a pain because it no longer stands out once the announced publication date is in the past. It's much better to prevent them from getting entered in the first place. Ahasuerus 19:05, 3 September 2020 (EDT)
I'll certainly try to catch those when I review submissions. I almost never enter future publications myself, so it's not even a rule that comes to mind. I do have two suggestions though. First, it would probably be a good idea to point these out to the submitting editors and ask them not to do it. While it doesn't look as if Tocchan has ever responded, Auric has responded as recently as August 13. My other suggestion is that perhaps entering a feature request to have a warning appear on the edit approval screen, similar to what is done with publication date before title date, or with problems with the image url. Thanks. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 07:14, 4 September 2020 (EDT)
That's a very good point. FR 1369 has been created. Thanks! Ahasuerus 10:13, 4 September 2020 (EDT)
Not a bad idea to have a yellow warning :) As I’ve spent most of the spring and summer dealing with the publishers’ changing schedules, my brain first goes to the dates these days but I agree, a warning will be helpful.
I will leave a note for Auric and Tocchan - the latter does not respond but I had seen occasional change in behavior based on a note so maybe it will work. Annie 09:49, 4 September 2020 (EDT)

Super-Science Fiction on Wikipedia main page on October 24

Hi -- since you helped me out with a reference for the Wikipedia article on Super-Science Fiction, I thought you might like to know that it'll be on the main page of Wikipedia as "Today's Featured Article" on October 24th (GMT). Thanks again for the help. Mike Christie (talk) 17:03, 11 September 2020 (EDT)

Congratulations! I used the same handle on Wikipedia, but I stopped editing 9 years ago after an argument about cover scans. I'll keep an eye out for it on the 24th. --Ron ~ RtraceTalk 18:28, 11 September 2020 (EDT)
I had a look at your last contributions; yes, that's a frustrating conversation. Would be good to have you back, though, if you ever want to -- we don't have enough editors working on the history of sf. Mike Christie (talk) 08:32, 12 September 2020 (EDT)
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